[bdery]

If you're going to work with that make up artist again, I'd strongly advise to discuss this with her. You both will benefit from a honest discussion. Not "you suck" but "I don't think that particular element worked well", specifically as you said the red and the tan. With examples, and concentrating on the technical elements, not the people.

[mrNewt]

Btw, a lot of photographers (well obviously not the "pro, pros") that have experience with the artistic side of the Photoshop tend to do the photo shoot with just a light makeup that usually the model applies by itself... just to make her skin more "camera friendly"; and then they apply the makeup in PP using brushes and such.

[Wired]

If you're going to work with that make up artist again, I'd strongly advise to discuss this with her. You both will benefit from a honest discussion. Not "you suck" but "I don't think that particular element worked well", specifically as you said the red and the tan. With examples, and concentrating on the technical elements, not the people.

Had that discussion last night, and it went fairly well. I showed her before and after examples of what I did and told her why. She totally see's it. She apologized for making "more work for me". It went much better than I expected. Were shooting again next Friday, however this time it's her creative direction and shes the model and HMUA... so should be interesting. I'm about second chances so we will see where this goes. Especially since we all started somewhere, jumping in the deep end is just that, jumping in. Doesn't matter how long you have been behind the camera or infront of it, that water can drown you fast if your not smart.

Btw, a lot of photographers (well obviously not the "pro, pros") that have experience with the artistic side of the Photoshop tend to do the photo shoot with just a light makeup that usually the model applies by itself... just to make her skin more "camera friendly"; and then they apply the makeup in PP using brushes and such.

Many do yes, I've learned that. One reason I'm starting to spend a lot more time on Phlearn and focus on the back end of the production cycle for my training. There is just so much out there. A lot of the local and area pros seem to got the mantra of "get it right in camera and model" before getting into photoshop... I find a lot of the Edmonton Fashion group photographers I've talked to just don't like being in photoshop more than they have to, and I get that. It can be really time consuming.

The good news is that I created a preset action in photoshop for this shoot and I got through two more images fairly quickly for the color correction. So I don't think I'll have to reshoot it. not yet anyways

[Wired]

@dcshooter Wow very impressive, I'll be giving that a go once I get home from work tonight. Thank you. Much better result than my method, and a lot quicker too. I'm sure you got more practice than me which helps too.

[mrNewt]

A lot of the local and area pros seem to got the mantra of "get it right in camera and model" before getting into photoshop...

Preparation is the mother of all good and fast results ; I like that mantra myself.

I find a lot of the Edmonton Fashion group photographers I've talked to just don't like being in photoshop more than they have to, and I get that. It can be really time consuming.

That is true... as you already find out . That's why like you have said, preparing and getting the photo right can make a big difference on the final outcome.
Mind you, your photos are still quite salvageable... they just need a lot of more work.
I think the most difficult part is to match the colors for her face and body - don't do a blend between them... it will look very weird and unnatural.
Once you crack the perfect solution for one of the photos, applying to all the others will be much faster.

@dcshooter - nice results, but you can still see the colors separation between her body and face.
And you've lost a little sharpness on her clavicle area.

[Wired]

I assume you are talking about in the headshot rather than the head and shoulders.

I suppose that there is a bit of pink, in the bit of chest that showsat the bottom of the image, but it certainly is not something that jumps out on my color calibrated monitor. Either way, it is something that could easily be removed in about 30 more seconds with an additional mask and the color selection tool. The clavicle is intentionally softened, since this is a fashion-style photo, and soft skin is the owrd of the day. Again, about another 30 second change if you prefer the sharper look - add a reveal all mask to the softening layer and use the brush to mask out the edge. Voila, it looks sharp again. My point was, there are shortcuts to making this work go a lot faster. It's just a matter of discovering and implementing them.

and having the right tools (NIK for example). I will for sure be taking your technique and working with it. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I want to recover what I can from this shoot because it was fun and I'm pretty proud of many of the images. I usually go through and check off my favorite then have my wife cull them for me again. She's a pretty harsh critic and she still came out with 60 "keepers". I nailed that down to 20.




Now because it's on topic.... heres one I brutally F***d up beyond all recognition....




So! Whats the story here? Well, I screwed up. I have no idea where I put my focus point, I could of sworn I put it on her eye, but no, it seems to be on her thumb. How I made a huge mistake like that is beyond my imagination, but I have to live with it now. Even on an APSC camera at f3.2 the depth of field advantage didn't save me and I was left with a very soft face. What this is....is a process of me going in and sharpening the living crap out of it, then trying to hide things with contrast and punchy color. I fear there is no hope for recovery on this one. And I posed her so nicely too.... That being said, Megan and I will be doing a "basics" shoot in the very near future.

Looks fine for web size... but once you get in there and take a closer look....prepare to cry at my horrible blunder of technical skill.

[mrNewt]

I assume you are talking about in the headshot rather than the head and shoulders.

I suppose that there is a bit of pink, in the bit of chest that showsat the bottom of the image, but it certainly is not something that jumps out on my color calibrated monitor. Either way, it is something that could easily be removed in about 30 more seconds with an additional mask and the color selection tool. The clavicle is intentionally softened, since this is a fashion-style photo, and soft skin is the owrd of the day. Again, about another 30 second change if you prefer the sharper look - add a reveal all mask to the softening layer and use the brush to mask out the edge. Voila, it looks sharp again. My point was, there are shortcuts to making this work go a lot faster. It's just a matter of discovering and implementing them.

I wasn't trying to critique your work. I was just telling you what I see... and it seems unnatural... that's all.

---------- Post added 01-29-15 at 10:56 AM ----------

and having the right tools (NIK for example). I will for sure be taking your technique and working with it. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I want to recover what I can from this shoot because it was fun and I'm pretty proud of many of the images. I usually go through and check off my favorite then have my wife cull them for me again. She's a pretty harsh critic and she still came out with 60 "keepers". I nailed that down to 20.




Now because it's on topic.... heres one I brutally F***d up beyond all recognition....




So! Whats the story here? Well, I screwed up. I have no idea where I put my focus point, I could of sworn I put it on her eye, but no, it seems to be on her thumb. How I made a huge mistake like that is beyond my imagination, but I have to live with it now. Even on an APSC camera at f3.2 the depth of field advantage didn't save me and I was left with a very soft face. What this is....is a process of me going in and sharpening the living crap out of it, then trying to hide things with contrast and punchy color. I fear there is no hope for recovery on this one. And I posed her so nicely too.... That being said, Megan and I will be doing a "basics" shoot in the very near future.

Looks fine for web size... but once you get in there and take a closer look....prepare to cry at my horrible blunder of technical skill.

Hard to say from that tiny picture... Her face looks sharp enough... but the color on her face looks quite bad.
You want a little bit of softness on her face.

Sometimes you also have to know when to admit defeat. If you feel that you are overdoing things and it start to look unnatural, maybe is time to give up on it or go at it from a different approach... like a B&W porcelain look? That might soothe this particular image!?

---

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-29-2015 at 08:57 AM.

[mrNewt]

Funny, it seems like that is the very definition of what you were trying to do.

critique [kri-teek] n. a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc.

Now do you have any suggestions as to how to salvage the photos from this shoot beyond "don't blend?"

OK... ... moving on I guess.

[Wired]

Yeah, it definitely is one of those maddeningly infuriating "great pose, missed focus" shots. Sometimes you just have to let it go. If you did a portfolio trade on this one, tell Megan it will be a good Facebook shot, but you won't be providing prints.

Yea that's exactly what I did. I even provided a 5mp version to her for just that reasoning.

This whole shoot was a portfolio trade. Megan is such a good sport, one of the best models I've worked with too, which is refreshing for such a young girl.


I don't know what it is, but I was missing with my K3 all night going through the images. It wasn't until I swapped over to my D800 that I saw an improvement in the "hits". I use my K3 all the time, a lot of my non-portfolio pieces that get sold with rights came from my K3, so I was very surprised. I just get fatigued too quickly running my D800 all night, so I try to use the K3 as much as possible.

And it's not like it's the glass, FA 77 and FA 43 were the lenses of choice here. so I know for sure it was me and not the tech.

[Parallax]

Funny, it seems like that is the very definition of what you were trying to do.

critique [kri-teek] n. a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc.

Now do you have any suggestions as to how to salvage the photos from this shoot beyond "don't blend?"

He was just trying to be helpful. I was under the impression that you thought unsolicited critique of someones work was perfectly acceptable.

[Wired]

Step 1: Use the dynamic skin softener tool in Color Efex to smooth out the color transitions in the skin and remove blemishes

Running this right now... so far the only thing that is tripping me up is how you got the skin tones to match so well... I followed this but I must be missing something as I still got a golden face and a white body

[Wired]

There's a difference between constructive criticism (i.e. offering solutions) and just criticizing because you like to tear down others' work.

I am assuming you are still smarting over your entry in the PP contest 2 weeks ago where I merely pointed out that the WB on your monitor appeared to be off and offered advice on how to fix it? If you recall, I even pointed out that I had nothing negative to say about the quality of your PP work, yet you still insisted on getting your panties in a twist.

If you fail to see how that is different from going out of one's way to nitpick a quickie image used to illustrate suggestions on how to save time in PPing a bunch of photos while offering no alternative suggestions, then you are seriously lacking in perspective.



---------- Post added 01-29-15 at 09:57 PM ----------

I primarily used the sliders in the Selective color layers to balance the overall differences in skin tones. The dynamic skin softener was primarily about smoothing out rough transitions and removing small inconsistencies/blemishes/etc.



---------- Post added 01-29-15 at 10:05 PM ----------

I still have the files open, and looking at the adjustments I made, I did:

Reds: Yellow-14, Black+5
Whites: Black -5

On the headshot, I did a selective color layer on the whole image with:
Reds: Yelllow-7

I then masked out the neck and did another layer:
Reds: Magenta -34 Yellow-17 Black+40
Yellows: Magenta-4





This brought the darker and redder tones in the body more in line with the more yellow tones in the face.

thanks, I did things very similar while trying to figure it out myself. thank you so much for your help! Here are a few more borrowing from your techniques and playing around a bit.







That last one I think is too soft when you view it at websize, but 1:1 it seems to be pretty sharp... going to probably restart that one from scratch. Could also be brighter I think.

[MRRiley]

I think thats the way I'm going to go. I'm just waiting for her to ask what happened to the eye makeup when she starts seeing the images. I'm going to leave one headshot un-edited for her "before and after" portfolio as she requested... however that eye makeup is going to go for the rest of the images.




This is just color correction so far, and not done.... balancing the skin tone, and then trying to get rid of that red makeup around her eyes. I still got some to cleanup as it gets closer to her right eye, and haven't done a thing to the other eye yet.

OUCH!!! Find a new MUA! You NEVER darken the inner corners of the eyes for a photoshoot! If anything you lighten them slightly.

[magkelly]

That makeup job is horrible and I would have never even attempted to shoot with it. Seriously, that makeup person needs to go back to cosmetology school if she thinks that is a basic natural makeup. The pink clashes with everything else. It's an awful lip color and that red around the eyes I mean WHAT was she thinking? I would let he know that this was absolutely not acceptable and I would never use her again. Yeah, you should have checked her before you began and made her redo this, but there's no excuse for this makeup job. It's just very poor quality work.

[Wired]

That makeup job is horrible and I would have never even attempted to shoot with it. Seriously, that makeup person needs to go back to cosmetology school if she thinks that is a basic natural makeup. The pink clashes with everything else. It's an awful lip color and that red around the eyes I mean WHAT was she thinking? I would let he know that this was absolutely not acceptable and I would never use her again. Yeah, you should have checked her before you began and made her redo this, but there's no excuse for this makeup job. It's just very poor quality work.

shoulda coulda woulda. However that took her a whole bloody hour. I only had the studio for 2 including cleanup and tear down. I just wanted to get shooting.

I'll be more careful next time for sure.