[maxxxx]

It seems that DSLR cameras (and mirror less) don't provide much innovation anymore. They are basically all the same. Cell phone cameras are good enough for snapshots now and bigger cameras don't provide much more value to most users.

For DSLR cameras to sell more they need to offer something cell phones can't do.

[normhead]

It seems that DSLR cameras (and mirror less) don't provide much innovation anymore. They are basically all the same. Cell phone cameras are good enough for snapshots now and bigger cameras don't provide much more value to most users.

For DSLR cameras to sell more they need to offer something cell phones can't do.

A built in coffee maker would be nice....

[Clavius]

For DSLR cameras to sell more they need to offer something cell phones can't do.

They do, we know about what extras they offer, otherwise we wouldn't be using them either. But it's not enough. Just an example: Soccer moms used to 'need' a DSLR for shooting their kids playing soccer. Their phone wasn't able to do it, and if it was, it couldn't do anything with the pictures. Now, it's almost the other way around. Mom wants to take the pictures, review, crop and post them in Facebook/Twitter/whatever during the match. Our big dedicated cameras can't do that. (And I wouldn't want them to be able to do that.) If users were able to instantly access the pictures taken with that DSLR with their cellphone or tablet things would be very different I think. I know there's connectivity between devices, but it's still much to fidgetty. The flucard, for example, is a terrible experience, imho. After an easy one-time setup users should be able to flick on their smartphone, open their album and the contents of the SD card that's inside the camera.

[maxxxx]

They do, we know about what extras they offer, otherwise we wouldn't be using them either. But it's not enough. Just an example: Soccer moms used to 'need' a DSLR for shooting their kids playing soccer. Their phone wasn't able to do it, and if it was, it couldn't do anything with the pictures. Now, it's almost the other way around. Mom wants to take the pictures, review, crop and post them in Facebook/Twitter/whatever during the match. Our big dedicated cameras can't do that. (And I wouldn't want them to be able to do that.) If users were able to instantly access the pictures taken with that DSLR with their cellphone or tablet things would be very different I think. I know there's connectivity between devices, but it's still much to fidgetty. The flucard, for example, is a terrible experience, imho. After an easy one-time setup users should be able to flick on their smartphone, open their album and the contents of the SD card that's inside the camera.

That's the thing. A DSLR should offer anything a phone can and a lot more. But it's the opposite . Cell phones offer more. For example my phone can do panoramas by simple panning but my K3 can't. WiFi should be built in, GPS should be. It should connect to Bluetooth. High end DSLR should have LTE and integrate with phones and tablets. And do this better than phones.

[Winder]

Somehow the Japanese cameramarket is taking a big hit at the moment.


http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201502_e.pdf

The shipment of dslr has been down to 51,8 % of the same period in 2014 while mirrorless is down to 60,1 % of last years first two months. Since the Japanese market is the biggest chunk in the Pentax salescake (over 50 %) this must have some effect.

Anyone knowing a reason? Japan kept buying more camera's over the past years then the rest of the World, so are they only now discovering the advantages of smartphones?

The downtime could also be a reflex from last december's overstocking the market when the Japanese market was flushed with maybe to many camera's into the saleschannels. Last december they shipped extra stock, maybe just to get nice yearly figures to their stores.

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201412_e.pdf

CIPA tracks Japan's market. Japan has been in a recession during 2014 and was falling into a recession in 2013.
Japan 'Unconvincingly' Exits Recession, But Abenomics Faces More Challenges In 2015


"“We’re not seeing major consumption effects and I think that’s really pushing us toward the longer-term perspective of if we do see a recovery, how is that going to translate itself into 2015,” said van Ark. “Because of that, we’re still fairly cautious about Japan’s economic growth this year.”

Growth for Q1 2015 was still 1.5% below forecast and expected to be revised down. This is just one reason why Japan's numbers are tanking. Just a few years ago 75 Yen was equal to 1 Dollar. Today it takes 125 Yen to equal 1 Dollar. Look at age demographics. Look at exchange rates.

[Clavius]

That's the thing. A DSLR should offer anything a phone can and a lot more. But it's the opposite . Cell phones offer more. For example my phone can do panoramas by simple panning but my K3 can't. WiFi should be built in, GPS should be. It should connect to Bluetooth. High end DSLR should have LTE and integrate with phones and tablets. And do this better than phones.

The digital camera made pictures available for review on the spot, but still makes you wait untill you can get back home and insert the SD card in your computer to be able to do something with those pictures. The smartphone did take that logical next step instead of cameras.

That's fine, I don't want to be able to do all post processing on my camera. And I don't want to make phonecalls or need to buy sim cards for my camera either. I especially don't want to app-updates when I'm leaning in to make a spectacular shot. I, and I think a lot of other people, want to access the taken pictures the moment it has been taken.

So a camera doesn't need to have all kinds of extra functions that phones have. Just one extra function: easy, intuitive, flawless, worry-free, hassle-free sharing with devices that do have all those functions.

(Could even make cameras smaller again. Who needs a giant LCD screen on the back of a camera when you can instantly review the images on a crystal clear smartphone screen or tablet screen?)

[maxxxx]

The digital camera made pictures available for review on the spot, but still makes you wait untill you can get back home and insert the SD card in your computer to be able to do something with those pictures. The smartphone did take that logical next step instead of cameras.

That's fine, I don't want to be able to do all post processing on my camera. And I don't want to make phonecalls or need to buy sim cards for my camera either. I especially don't want to app-updates when I'm leaning in to make a spectacular shot. I, and I think a lot of other people, want to access the taken pictures the moment it has been taken.

So a camera doesn't need to have all kinds of extra functions that phones have. Just one extra function: easy, intuitive, flawless, worry-free, hassle-free sharing with devices that do have all those functions.

(Could even make cameras smaller again. Who needs a giant LCD screen on the back of a camera when you can instantly review the images on a crystal clear smartphone screen or tablet screen?)

You could bring a DSLR down to only the optics, remove the LCD screen and move a lot of features to a tablet or phone. I would prefer live view on my phone instead of a swivel screen.

[VisualDarkness]

Well, Japan has had a stalled economy for loads of years now and the lack of any real signs of improvement, despite actions taken, are a huge consern there at the moment.

[Nass]

With news like this the price of FF is unlikely to be low...

[mecrox]

The digital camera made pictures available for review on the spot, but still makes you wait untill you can get back home and insert the SD card in your computer to be able to do something with those pictures. The smartphone did take that logical next step instead of cameras.

That's fine, I don't want to be able to do all post processing on my camera. And I don't want to make phonecalls or need to buy sim cards for my camera either. I especially don't want to app-updates when I'm leaning in to make a spectacular shot. I, and I think a lot of other people, want to access the taken pictures the moment it has been taken.

So a camera doesn't need to have all kinds of extra functions that phones have. Just one extra function: easy, intuitive, flawless, worry-free, hassle-free sharing with devices that do have all those functions.

(Could even make cameras smaller again. Who needs a giant LCD screen on the back of a camera when you can instantly review the images on a crystal clear smartphone screen or tablet screen?)

You may not want to have your camera behave like a phone but chances are 99 per cent of buyers would if they were given a choice (they are not given a choice at present). That's why they are flocking to smartphones. Since consumer goods are in part at least a numbers game, the camera-makers have only two choices: make the necessary changes to maintain volume sales or accept a role as a very small and very, very expensive cottage industry for aficionados only. Pentax are quite well placed in one direction with the 645. In the other direction, who knows ... at least they don't have many volume sales to lose. None of these market figures is good news. Declining sales mean a depressed industry and declining R&D. At some point, it becomes a vicious circle. Where I live I'm mainly concerned that the knock-on effects will be more B&M outfits closing up which then favours big brand outfits which can afford monster online sales operations and bribes sorry "marketing contributions" to big retail. The small guy always gets squeezed, whether a B&M store or a camera-maker.

[ruggiex]

You could bring a DSLR down to only the optics, remove the LCD screen and move a lot of features to a tablet or phone. I would prefer live view on my phone instead of a swivel screen.

Sounds like this is what you want... I don't think it's really selling like hot cakes anyway. Personally I don't really want to pay the premium in order to have my DSLR to do all the equivalent functions of my phone. All the new KS2 features in K3 would be all I need for years until there is a big break through with sensor tech.

http://store.sony.com/interchangeable-lens-style-camera-zid27-ILCEQX1/B/cat-...ollections-ifa


As long as the camera is an additional thing to carry, it automatically is a hassle for people who think phone cameras are good enough. Making a MILC/DSLR size camera do everything a phone does isn't going to solve that problem because they still need to carry a phone, assuming no one wants to make calls on their camera... Making it too small then it doesn't perform that much better than a regular phone (i.e. Samsung Galaxy Zoom Camera phones). So you just end up having a bulkier phone. Connectivity between camera and phone/tablet is important. However, I think trying to merge the two is just a lost cause.

[JimmyDranox]

As far as I know, the real economic data, not the rigged ones, shows that almost every developed country is close to stagnation or worse. Wall Street is high, but down street is low. Of course, other reason can be involved too. So, no wonder, even if the numbers are unexpectedly low.

About mirrorless, I don't know. Maybe people begin to realise that even that this cameras are smaller, with the lens mounted on it are still much bigger than a smartphone. And their size can work again it, because it can be tricky to keep it your hand and make stable pictures at some longer focal length.

[jeff knight]

Sooner or later the shrinking market is bound to put some camera manufacturers out of business. Who's on top? Who's near the bottom? It can't possibly go on like this.

[biz-engineer]

Companies go out of business when financially not managed correctly, otherwise, companies can reduce their personnel and facilities, without going out of business. Leica did not go out of business. The most important is not to design cameras that do not sell (such as the K-S1). Better design a least number of camera models, but with each camera model bringing a lot of value to the end user. Global market data is one thing, the success of a camera model is another thing. Remember when the cell phone market matured with Nokia being one of the top suppliers of cell phones? Apple iPhone broke into the mature cell phone market, and today, Nokia is nearly gone (Nokia does not exist anymore, it's now owned by Microsoft).

[Nass]

Sadly it wouldn't at all surprise me if we're witnessing the twilight of an era when semi professional equipment is relatively affordable for the hobbyist. As far as I know this has been propped up by volume sales on compacts and other mass market devices for a long time, the market for which has now been taken over by smartphones. And so I think semipro equipment must become more of a luxury item, priced higher to make up for the revenue.

I think though that camera brands have largely themselves to blame. There are so many innovations that could have been brought in with digital camera, instead they largely created cameras that just continued the previous era. For example they could and should have innovated with things like inbuilt focus stacking, inbuilt variable nd grads and so on - features which would make people want to buy their products instead of their smartphone competitor.

An example: my teenage son has an iphone 6 and its inbuilt HDR is better than the inbuilt HDR on my DSLR. I was astonished at its quality. The DSLR I gave him for his birthday sits in its case unused. And he'll get an a* for his big photography exam in the summer partially because some of the excellent shots he took with his phone.