[From1980]

Someone pointed out in another thread, or was it another forum, anyway the point was that Canon and Nikon and even Sony are aimed at consumers, Pentax are for enthusiasts. Many camera stores, especially large department or electronic stores cater to consumers. I look at the stores like Henry's and Vistek, in Eastern Canada and the Camera Store in the west, along with many others that are real camera stores, and they all stock Pentax. So the cognoscenti are aware, but not he plebian masses.

I have always found this to be true in Southwestern Ontario also. It seems Pentax has had a smaller niche in this market ever since the wane of Spotmatic popularity. The largest stores mainly in the Toronto area always offered the whole Pentax lineup (or at least listed the products in their catalogs) but most other retailers and especially the Black`s chain stores only offered one or two of the consumer models and almost no lenses or accessories.
The refreshing exception decades ago was the small store I worked at for a while called Turek Camera in Windsor. We handled sales to much of the serious enthusiasts and a lot of the professionals in the area. The managers were big on Pentax because the store could provide top quality equipment at an affordable cost. Serious photographers got to know this and kept coming back. The staff did not work on commission and were free to engage in talk about the customers` real needs without being expected to push the usual advertised items like most stores did. I think it was one of the few stores around to consistently stock not only the great Pentax lineup but top Nikons, Leica, Hasselblad, all the medium format Mamiyas as well as these lenses, accessories, and a full line of film, paper, and chemistry. Photographers could see and handle large format view cameras and lenses there too.
Here is something the PF members should like and evidence we tried to advance good photography and not just make quick sales taking advantage of hapless snapshooters: THE STORE DID NOT EVEN STOCK CANON GEAR!!!!!

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Last edited by From1980; 05-02-2015 at 11:20 PM.

[Kerrowdown]

Lack of Pentax "Prescence" in UK

But that's all part of what makes us all here special.

[kev.pride]

But that's all part of what makes us all here special.

Agree.

Kevin

[biz-engineer]

I think it was a choice of Pentax to do distribution via online retailers and some key / large electronic retailers, while and dropping the small shops. It seems that online marcom has slightly increased since Ricoh.
The leverage of online media is much higher than paper. The issue remaining is with regard to after sales service/repair, which is my opinion is too thin.

We are Pentax users either because we knew Pentax from the film era, or we fell on a Pentax offer by accident, or we compared various cameras and decided to buy a Pentax for some reasons.

[lesmore49]

Someone pointed out in another thread, or was it another forum, anyway the point was that Canon and Nikon and even Sony are aimed at consumers, Pentax are for enthusiasts. Many camera stores, especially large department or electronic stores cater to consumers. I look at the stores like Henry's and Vistek, in Eastern Canada and the Camera Store in the west, along with many others that are real camera stores, and they all stock Pentax. So the cognoscenti are aware, but not he plebian masses.

Only a few Henry's stock Pentax anymore....think 4 stores in the east. In my area of western Canada, in the past 6 months, Pentax does not seem to be stocked anymore at a number of camera stores. Online sales no problem, but I can't find much stock in the camera stores out here.

What will I do ? I have a good supply of Pentax DSLR bodies and lenses...so I'm alright for awhile. I'm getting older, so to look at my situation squarely in the eye, I'll probably just replace by going online...when a piece of Pentax equipment breaks down and can't be repaired.

In the film days I used my old Leica (11f) rangefinder 35mm. If I can convince myself and my wife that a old age treat is in store...well I'd like to get a new Leica digital rangefinder (full frame for those who are curious)...a 28mm wide angle, 50 normal and 90 telephoto. But that's a lot of bucks and a lot of rationalization for me.

I'd rather have this Leica kit, than any Canon or Nikon system. But that's just me. Others might differ.

Give me one Pentax body with my Pentax 12-24 and a Pentax 300 and along with the Leica kit mentioned....I could get by quite well photographically to the end of my days.

Les

[Slicvic]

Someone pointed out in another thread, or was it another forum, anyway the point was that Canon and Nikon and even Sony are aimed at consumers, Pentax are for enthusiasts. Many camera stores, especially large department or electronic stores cater to consumers. I look at the stores like Henry's and Vistek, in Eastern Canada and the Camera Store in the west, along with many others that are real camera stores, and they all stock Pentax. So the cognoscenti are aware, but not he plebian masses.

A lot of professionals, in fact most, use Canon or Nikon so I don't think that argument holds water.

[monochrome]

A lot of professionals, in fact most, use Canon or Nikon so I don't think that argument holds water.

Canon, Nikon and to a lesser degree Sony, use a High-Volume, Low-Margin business model for their consumer lines, as distinct from their professional lines. That model requires advertising and sales support (people), retail stores under Dealer Agreements, distribution centers and all manner of activities we call 'marketing' to work correctly.

In addition, Canon and Nikon use a different business model to market and support their professional lines (as distinct from their consumer lines) - on which they might not even make a profit - to serve as attractors or halos for the consumer lines.

Pentax, Olympyus, Fuji and to some extent Sony use a Lower-Volume, Higher-Profit (per unit sold) business model. In such a model, marketing through B&M stores is actually a loss maker - the Dealer Agreements are too expensive. They wouldn't even have the manufacturing capacity to supply the higher volume for BestBuy marketing, much less the cash flow to support all the other necessary elements of that market strategy.

It's just a business decision. It's an alternative to Canon and Nikon, purposefully chosen. It doesn't indicate weakness or product gaps or anything - just how they want to do business outside Japan and China.

Ricoh can make plenty of profit for the time being selling Pentax cameras and lenses just as they are doing. The challenge will come when they get large enough that they need to significantly expand plant - then they'll need to expand market tactics to support volume to support plant capital investment. But that day is years off.

Pentax is fine. No worries.

[lesmore49]

Canon, Nikon and to a lesser degree Sony, use a High-Volume, Low-Margin business model for their consumer lines, as distinct from their professional lines. That model requires advertising and sales support (people), retail stores under Dealer Agreements, distribution centers and all manner of activities we call 'marketing' to work correctly.

In addition, Canon and Nikon use a different business model to market and support their professional lines (as distinct from their consumer lines) - on which they might not even make a profit - to serve as attractors or halos for the consumer lines.

Pentax, Olympyus, Fuji and to some extent Sony use a Lower-Volume, Higher-Profit (per unit sold) business model. In such a model, marketing through B&M stores is actually a loss maker - the Dealer Agreements are too expensive. They wouldn't even have the manufacturing capacity to supply the higher volume for BestBuy marketing, much less the cash flow to support all the other necessary elements of that market strategy.

It's just a business decision. It's an alternative to Canon and Nikon, purposefully chosen. It doesn't indicate weakness or product gaps or anything - just how they want to do business outside Japan and China.

Ricoh can make plenty of profit for the time being selling Pentax cameras and lenses just as they are doing. The challenge will come when they get large enough that they need to significantly expand plant - then they'll need to expand market tactics to support volume to support plant capital investment. But that day is years off.

Pentax is fine. No worries.

Sounds like you're more knowledgeable than me. Sounds like perhaps you are in the wholesale/retail camera biz. Just a guess, on my part.

A question I have is you say Pentax is fine, it's all part of the business plan that Ricoh has. I'm not saying it isn't. I just don't know enough to know if that is the case. I'm no expert.


But I've noticed up here (Western Canada) that almost all the camera stores in my burg, have within the last 6 months really scaled down their Pentax stock, in fact many don't carry Pentax anymore.

I can still go to their online departments and order in. They say 7-14 days and I suspect they don't carry any of Pentax stock in online warehouses, but instead just order it from Pentax on a as needed...when ordered by a customer only...basis.

Now there's tons of Nikon/Canon stuff in their brick and mortar stores...but no Pentax anymore. I don't see any advertising either for Pentax. Many modern , new photographers don't even know the name Pentax, but they do know Canon and Nikon.

To me it just doesn't seem like this is the right business plan to follow. An old salesman's saying...is that you can't sell from an empty wagon. Meaning no available stock...right there in the wagon (store)....means no sale of that product.

[From1980]

monochrome, thanks for your knowledgeable analysis of different business models for camera retail. However, i think lesmore49 also makes a significant point. It may well be Ricoh will not achieve the higher volume of sales required to have the capital to expand plants with this retail method. The Pentax brand strength has been to produce a long line of break through products in low volume for a niche market that supports the company. If they ever decide to work on appealing to a wider mass market then I would fear their innovations may get watered down in order to produce less expensive and easier to build products. Isn`t that what Nikon and Canon seem to have done with their higher volume cameras?
Perhaps it is better for Pentaxians if Ricoh never tries to compete in size with other companies and continues to thrill us with special, unique products made well. There was a time in the film era when Pentax seemed to almost abandon the serious enthusiast and especially professionals by concentrating on a frustrating and boring lineup of point and shoots in higher volume.
Let`s not see that again.

[monochrome]

@lesmore49: I don't know factually, but I wouldn't be surprised to know Ricoh Imaging Canada has recently been downrated to something more along the lines of Ricoh Imaging US. From reading here it seems many of the smaller European Divisions have also recently been consolidated. It has to do with no longer 'covering' accounts (individual Dealers) with a salesperson, since the salesperson is expensive compared to 'servicing' the sales channel with computer ordering.

Cash Flow supports organizational structure. Loss of the Cash Flow from compact cameras has had unanticipated knock-on effects. Corporations the world over, in nearly every industry, are flattening their organizations by eliminating people - not just in manufacturing, but now also in sales and sales management. Add in the loss of dSLR volume and really unusual things are happening.

FWIW, Pentax is no longer carried in a 9-store chain in St. Louis that has been a stalwart supporter of the brand since 1977. Recently the founder of the chain retired and sold the company. One presumes the new owner, servicing debt, requires manufacturer financing of inventory (Dealer Agreement financing) before he will allocate shelf space to product. I don't think Ricoh Imaging Americas is a small businesses credit provider.

But that's just speculation.

Interestingly, Ricoh Imaging US is supposedly doing much better the last 12 months but it has taken a huge amount of work by the small number of people in Denver.

@from1980: That's above my pay grade - and way down the road. I believe Ricoh's fundamental operating strategy is to occupy the space of the 'third full-line camera company' globally, for which they believe there is room in the market, over the intermediate term (which is 5 - 7 years from April, 2013). The operating qualifier is 'full-line' and they intend to be the alternative to Canon and Nikon - not another Canon or Nikon - so I wouldn't be concerned about losing the Pentax DNA.

[magkelly]

Locally there is no Pentax presence, period. I have to order online or forget it and I do. There's no such thing as a camera store here anymore. The only places you can buy a DSLR are big box stores like Target, Walmart, Best Buy and actually lately my local Walmarts have nothing offline by way of cameras. They stopped selling anything above $75 pretty much. They sell pocket cams in bubble plastic on a rack, that's it. They killed their photo lab and digital print machines a long while back. The cameras went shortly after. Target still sells a few but not nearly as many as they used to. Best Buy less and less too, no Pentax of course, and it's all way overpriced what they do sell so I don't even bother to go there now. Do I like it? Nope. But I'm used to it. Old style camera stores are few and far between these days...