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10-03-2015, 03:28 PM   #16
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The human response to being in spontaneous incidents is largely physiological so there's little point debating the what if's because you don't actually know how you'll react until you're in it. Like murfy, I ran down a pair a armed robbers, unarmed and barefoot once. I can assure you the legs do the talking and your mind becomes hyperfocussed to the point where you can't really take rational control until your brain is given a short pause in proceedings to take stock.

10-03-2015, 04:18 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
And you both were fools for doing so
I couldn't agree more and had the same thought as soon as the pursuit was over, but I honestly doubt I had any rational control over my decision to engage. I haven't been mugged like you but I've been confronted with the threat of violence on a few occasions and like yourself I've de-conflicted the situation and walked away in every case.

The intended victims of the robbery were known to me so maybe that triggered the 'fight' reaction in my brain. It's still no excuse for irrationally engaging in a pursuit.

There's nothing 'macho' about it. That's an appropriate label for succumbing to peer pressure, but when applied to physiological response it's a bit ignorant of the science.
10-03-2015, 04:33 PM - 1 Like   #18
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Modest proposal. Drop the should haves, might haves, would have been smarter ifs. Locate the memorial website and marvel at the man's creativity and the memorable images he's left with us.
10-03-2015, 06:32 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
I've been mugged on 3 occasions. In every case, I've done the smart thing and as a result have nary a scratch to show for it. Stuff can always be replaced.
You are very lucky then, because I know people who did *everything" right, gave up property, didn't fight back etc, and were harmed anyway, after the robbery occurred. After all I guess they figured they didn't even want anyone going to the police.

My friend did the 'smart' thing, and the police found his body in an abandoned building a week after he went missing. He was killed in front of his house, from what they gathered he handed over his wallet to some people who robbed him, they pulled a gun on him, in front of his house after he got home from work. They got his wallet, then they killed him (shot him) and stole his truck, sold the contents in the truck and used it to dump his body in an abandoned building. He is not the only one, but he is the only one I know that was killed, another had to have reconstructive surgery on her face. That happened after she handed over her purse.

Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose. He may have been killed even if he didn't fight back, that is a very likely, from what I have seen now.

Now I live near a city with one of the highest murder rates in the country. Losing friends who did everything right are what makes me feel for his family regardless as to whether he fought back.
I don't know that area, but "notoriously crime-ridden city, one with notoriously corrupt and ineffective police forces to boot" is probably a good description of near where I live.

I will continue to feel for his family.

---------- Post added 10-03-15 at 09:35 PM ----------

if anyone is interested, here is one link I found to his work
French photographer Laurent Schwebel … | Bear Tales

---------- Post added 10-03-15 at 09:59 PM ----------

just out of curiosity, is there a reason why the article is dated feb, 2012? did this happen 3 years ago?


Last edited by Murfy; 10-03-2015 at 06:53 PM.
10-03-2015, 10:52 PM   #20
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What has been given little regard here is that the man was French, and he was operating in a Western democracy that is in many respects like his home country, but where everyday things happen that are not common in France (ie the murder rates are quite different). It's the sort of stuff that happens everywhere, but the frequency of occurrence is the difference. People from most Western countries expect this sort of thing to happen as a matter of course in lawless societies, whereas it happens by exception in their home countries, even if they're used to going into some very dangerous places elsewhere in the world.

You can't judge people by the standards that apply for you, when they don't have the same shared experiences.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 10-03-2015 at 11:51 PM.
10-03-2015, 10:54 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
See, I can have moral outrage, too.
It seems that you aren't ready to give up your position even on Pentaxforum (for no value at all), so, in order to show your intelligence , please let it go.
Yes, I agree, sometimes the best thing to do is to let it go.

Still watching his excellent works.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 10-03-2015 at 11:05 PM.
10-04-2015, 01:12 AM   #22
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Some of his photos were incredible that's for sure. Some of the predation themed ones are simply unbelievable. (If they were photo shopped keep it to yourself and don't burst my bubble please.)
10-04-2015, 01:45 PM   #23
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OK, I have egg upon my face. A member sent this in as a recent event. However the article say it happened 3 years ago. Sorry for the 'news flash'!

10-04-2015, 02:06 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
OK, I have egg upon my face. A member sent this in as a recent event. However the article say it happened 3 years ago. Sorry for the 'news flash'!
IMO
And, I am sorry to say, what a hornets' nest your posting disturbed! I am sorry to say that I found many of the remarks made here totally off-topic, and of poor and insensitive taste. In fact, I was wondering how long it would take to a moderator to step in....
10-04-2015, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Modest proposal. Drop the should haves, might haves, would have been smarter ifs. Locate the memorial website and marvel at the man's creativity and the memorable images he's left with us.
Agreed! The man is dead, let's give thanks for the images he took and shared with the world. How he died, is not for us to judge, until we've walked that mile in his shoes.
10-04-2015, 03:19 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxis Quote
IMO
And, I am sorry to say, what a hornets' nest your posting disturbed! I am sorry to say that I found many of the remarks made here totally off-topic, and of poor and insensitive taste. In fact, I was wondering how long it would take to a moderator to step in....
I feel bad because if his family where to search online, then this will pop up, and they would possibly have to rehash this event again. Hopefully the suspects have been charged and the family has moved on. I am not posting anymore out of respect for the family other than to say yes I agree I am pretty horrified by some statements too. I was hoping this would be deleted, since it is out of date anyway. I have had way too many people I loved and cared for die to sit and and talk about any mistakes they might have made. I was hoping people would be sensitive to the fact that a person lost another person they loved, but I guess not. It's so very sad.

Last edited by Murfy; 10-04-2015 at 03:37 PM.
10-05-2015, 09:16 AM - 1 Like   #27
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Firstly, I was under the impression that I am perfectly entitled to express a polite opinion on this forum. You however suggest I should 'take it elsewhere'. For my benefit, can you please explain why it is OK for some people to assert that the victim is an idiot (off the back of a truck load of assumptions), but my suggestion that it would be more appropriate to regard this murder victim as, well, a victim, should be taken elsewhere?

Secondly, I have a question in relation to the below: how is it that you are so sure of precisely what occurred and why it occurred? And I do think its the detailed specifics that matter, rather generalised comments about 'usually and normally'. After all, the title of 'idiot' was bestowed upon a very specific victim in one specific case.

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Of course there are situations where doing everything right can still lead to bad outcomes. This was not one of them. .

Last edited by batmobile; 10-05-2015 at 09:27 AM.
10-05-2015, 09:59 AM   #28
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One went there with a camera to take photographs. The other went there with a knife to take other peoples property. Neither is perfect, and only one intended to do anyone any harm.

We will never live in a perfect world. One can make progress, or one can make excuses for not making progress.
10-05-2015, 10:04 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Eyewitnesses state he tackled the mugger as he was trying to flee. The guy was stupid to escalate the situation and got himself killed. There are no assumptions involved. Res ipsa loquitur.
The fact that he fought back makes him no less a victim.
This is the attitude a large population of the public has held for years with regard to rape victims. This is the same argument defense attorneys use to defend accused rapists when their victims are killed or grievously injured. "If she (or he) had just lain there and accepted it, nobody would have been hurt." Yeah, right. we all know that no one ever gets killed unless they resist.
10-05-2015, 10:48 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
...I've been mugged on 3 occasions. In every case, I've done the smart thing and as a result have nary a scratch to show for it...
You've used loaded words like "idiot", "stupid", etc. referring to the victim. If you are into blaming victims, it could be said that you aren't smart because you repeatedly put yourself into situations where you are a target. What are you doing wrong to get mugged 3 times?
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