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10-05-2015, 05:25 PM - 1 Like   #31
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You don't get it. If one of those 3 muggers was crazy and killed you despite what you did, would you have suddenly gone from being perfectly right to an idiot? Smart people often make imperfect decisions in stressful situations due to impartial information, adrenaline, etc.

10-05-2015, 05:35 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
You don't get it. If one of those 3 muggers was crazy and killed you despite what you did, would you have suddenly gone from being perfectly right to an idiot? Smart people often make imperfect decisions in stressful situations due to impartial information, adrenaline, etc.
The defense attorney's creed: "It's the victims fault for being where he was, at the time he was there."
10-05-2015, 05:49 PM   #33
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With all due respect to the outraged, the point needs to be made that physically attacking someone who just robbed you is not terribly smart. The police have made exactly the same point to me on several occasions. It comes down to, do you want to take a non-assertive approach, or do you want to be dead. This is a personal decision and decisions have consequences. I guess there is some world where an aggressive response is always heroic, and a non-assertive response is always cowardly. Many sane people completely reject that philosophy, and that's all it is is a philosophy. There is no logical reason people should think that way, unless the anger of being victimized rules their common sense. The man's actions put him in harms way. It wasn't his fault someone came to rob him armed with a knife. That man was the criminal in this situation. That man was the one in the wrong. But our photographer was the man who ended up dead, and he had the power to save himself and chose to risk his life.

And sometimes when you risk your life you lose it. It was simply not a life threatening situation, until he made it one.
10-05-2015, 06:04 PM   #34
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I spent a very happy week in Buenos Aires and Iguazu Falls in 2012, and carried a bag full of camera gear everywhere. I never felt threatened.

Mind you, the body I took for the trip was my K-01, and no one in their right mind would steal that ugly brick

10-05-2015, 06:07 PM   #35
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QuoteQuote:
And sometimes when you risk your life you lose it. It was simply not a life threatening situation, until he made it one.
Some people choose to be defenseless victims, some choose to fight back. Life is a crap shoot. Every situation is unique and there is no "one size fits all" answer.
The fact remains that he didn't stab himself. He's the victim.
10-05-2015, 06:20 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Some people choose to be defenseless victims, some choose to fight back. Life is a crap shoot. Every situation is unique and there is no "one size fits all" answer.
The fact remains that he didn't stab himself. He's the victim.
He put himself in harms way. And he's dead. Who's the victim and who isn't, is that even important? In the big picture, what's important is he's dead, and deserves our condolences. There is a lesson there for those who choose to see it, but that in no way affects our sympathy for his situation.
10-05-2015, 06:39 PM   #37
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On a more practical note......I've rehearsed to prepare for being mugged whilst photographing......"mate, I've only got this old Pentax gear, not worth nothing...... but I did see some fat richey tourists back there with some choice Cannon and Nikon cameras....you'd offload those in no time....."

See, hanging with Cannikon shooters can pay....

Last edited by Tom S.; 10-08-2015 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Swearing
10-05-2015, 10:04 PM   #38
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Note I don't want to hijack this thread, but there are some other parallels in the photography world that we can use, to have a general discussion with respect to personal safety here. Note I make no comment regarding the actual fate of Laurent Schwebel, I leave others to judge that.

In my view, photographers have a responsibility to understand when their actions place either themselves, or their subjects at risk. I use for example, the case where photographers, or their subjects have drowned doing wedding photos in fast moving rivers, and those who have been killed or injured taking photographs on railway tracks. I admit these may be much more flagrant acts of questionable judgement than walking in rough neighbourhoods, or then again maybe not. Ask a war correspondent for example.

The point is you need to be fully aware of where you are at all times and act appropriately, and safely.

That is the discussion we should be having. Clearly, in hindsight, we can all criticize someone for getting killed. But instead of bashing them in the forum, what can we take away from this ourselves,

Enough said

10-05-2015, 10:37 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Take your moral outrage elsewhere.

Criminal statistics show that deaths in mugging almost entirely result from the victim attempting to resist. Where injuries occur with no resistance on the part of the victim, it is almost entirely the result of the victim being knocked down quickly in a snatch and grab. When the victim physically resists, they only succeed in recovering their possessions or succeed in getting the attacker arrested about 10% of the time.

This guy is a pro photographer who brought out his expensive gear in public in a notoriously crime-ridden city, one with notoriously corrupt and ineffective police forces to boot. Then once the mugger had his gear, he tried to tackle him.

In this case, the victim was stabbed 6 times. The police apparently have witnesses who state the photographer tackled his assailant. This was no snatch and grab.

This guy's own stupid decisions both before and after the robbery unfortunately were huge contributing factors leading to his death, and to pretend they didn't just because he's a photographer does a disservice to everyone in the community. Take this as a lesson. Insure your property. If you get mugged don't resist. And don't go flashing your fancy gear in a place where it's likely to make you a victim. This is all common sense advice, and has saved my skin multiple times when I've been mugged.

Yeah, people have bad luck, but personal responsibility is just as important.
Blaming the victim because of the violent actions of the perpetrator is perverse. People should be able to go anywhere, without fear of being murdered, and have the right to protect themselves and their property.
10-05-2015, 11:04 PM - 2 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Sounds like he was an idiot and got himself killed trying to tackle the armed thief who took his camera. And this all occurred in a notoriously violent neighborhood in Buenos Aires.

He's a pro and undoubtedly had his gear insured.Sometimes you just have to do the smart thing and let it go.
Dude, chill and stop the judging. The poor fellow's body isn't even cold yet and your basing all of your conclusions on second hand information.

The only verifiable fact here is that you are calling a recently killed person, a fellow photographer, an idiot and that's insensitive and in really poor taste no matter what the circumstances.

Last edited by johnmflores; 10-06-2015 at 05:39 AM.
10-06-2015, 09:24 AM   #41
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It's also amazing how the "assertive aggressive " types are willing to say we shouldn't take any lessons from this guy out of respect, when the guy has been dead for three years. 'This isn't the time." According to these types, there's never a time. It's become common to see people deliberately drawing the "respect " card, to deny the obvious conclusions. "We respect this guy more than you do, because we refuse to draw any conclusions from the way he died." Actually, refusing to draw the obvious conclusions is denial, not respect. They want to carry on as if this incident and others like them didn't happen, and that is the ultimate disrespect. If one person, saves his own life by being a little smarter after reading this account. This man will not have died in vain. If people continue to act aggressively in inappropriate situations, and die for it, he will have died for nothing.
10-06-2015, 09:37 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
And for that matter, considering how long ago it happened, why the heck was this posted here as "news" in the first place?
Tom S. explained that on page 2.
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