Laurent Schwebel Killed

Tom S. · 10-03-2015, 08:10 AM

Well Known French Photographer Fatally Stabbed While Taking Photos

normhead · 10-03-2015, 08:27 AM

Some people just don't get it. Usually, people steal stuff, because they are desperate. And you don't want to mess with desperate people.

**UncleVanya** · 10-03-2015, 08:40 AM - **2 Likes**

Tragic. I agree if the report is accurate that this was a poor choice and yet still tragic. I can imagine being stupid and making the same choice without thinking it through. I can also imagine making the sane choice and letting the equipment go. The footsteps of another are easy to second guess.

batmobile · 10-03-2015, 08:47 AM - **3 Likes**

We do not know exactly what happened and the man lies dead. He *could* have shown defensive wounds that suggest he fought against a robber, but maybe he instinctively fought after being attacked and was unable to deescalate the situation. We do not know, but I think branding a murder victim an idiot is rather bad taste, especially in the absence of solid facts. He went there to take photos and is now dead. People make mistakes.... people are unlucky.... people do not always handle violent criminals the the perfect way. Oh, the benefits of hindsight.

Na Horuk · 10-03-2015, 09:07 AM

Who knows what he did? And even if he fought back, that doesn't mean we should speak ill of him. Sure, maybe he did something unwise, but it was not a fate he deserved.
Tragic.

**WPRESTO** · 10-03-2015, 09:17 AM - **1 Like**

Tragedy is just that. Instinctive response is just that, not reasoned reaction based on knowledge of statistics of consequences. If someone grabbed your camera bag from behind, would you just let it go or reflexively grab and resist?
It is well worth tracking down the memorial posting of 51 selected images by Laurent Schwebel. I found them inspiring, if not humbling and intimidating. Some amazing captures.

**csa** · 10-03-2015, 09:21 AM

We can all second guess what we would do under the same circumstances; whether a cool head would prevail, and let the equipment go, or whether a reaction to hang onto, or retrieve the equipment would take over. We should all hope that we are never faced with that decision.

Na Horuk · 10-03-2015, 09:23 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by dcshooter

This guy's own stupid decisions both before and after the robbery unfortunately were huge contributing factors leading to his death, and to pretend t

Nobody is denying that or pretending. But I still feel it is odd to immediately call him a jackass and an idiot for getting murdered. He is still the victim, even if he resisted, thus angering the attackers.
He probably didn't know those statistics or judged the situation differently. And he paid for it with his life. Ridicule is the last thing he deserves.
And yeah, hope none of us ever have to face such a situation - or at least that we face it with better results

RIP

**WPRESTO** · 10-03-2015, 09:27 AM - **4 Likes**

I will put in another objection to blaming the victim. It's too much like the pathetic attitude toward victims of rape: 1) they enticed their attackers by the manner of their dress or the way they walked or what they said or their willingness to have a drink; 2) they were injured or killed because they resisted instead of "just enjoying it." Totally medieval attitudes.

biz-engineer · 10-03-2015, 10:13 AM

Tragic. Extraordinary photos from Laurent Schwebel. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that there is a certain amount of aggressiveness in this world. This is often persons not responsible for the misery of others who pays the high price.

**UncleVanya** · 10-03-2015, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

I will put in another objection to blaming the victim. It's too much like the pathetic attitude toward victims of rape: 1) they enticed their attackers by the manner of their dress or the way they walked or what they said or their willingness to have a drink; 2) they were injured or killed because they resisted instead of "just enjoying it." Totally medieval attitudes.

I think that is a bit of a stretch and a very first world view of this. But I am the first to agree that victim shaming isn't helpful in this case. I think I would let my gear go but I could be swept up in the moment and foolishly could make the wrong decision.

(Clarification: the parallel to rape victim isn't entirely stretched but assuming that there is no responsibility on the part of the victim to bear in mind surroundings and avoid undue heroism is where I differ in my view. I still think it is easy to armchair quarterback and say I'd do xyz but no one here can be certain.)

normhead · 10-03-2015, 11:03 AM - **1 Like**

Pursuing someone who robbed me... I used to be too smart for that stuff, now I'm just too old for that stuff. That's the thing about getting old, you can't even do a lot of the really stupid stuff you used to do. People think you're smarter. No, you're just incapacitated.

Blaming the victim and being intelligent are two different things. The cops once advised me to move because of a crazy man who lived down stairs. They said, "We can't be here every minute and do you really want to put your life in the hands of our response time?" AT this time, I don't even care about what "should be", I'm not going to die over my "right" to confront criminals. That's not even in the charter of rights.

Murfy · 10-03-2015, 11:23 AM

Very sad. I remember being young and stupid and chasing after a party of 4 who walked out on a check while I was waiting tables, the dash and dine, although they got up one at a time and left. One did pay me 'oh I thought they got the check', probably because I made a scene in front of a restaurant, but the boss told me to never do it again because he could have turned around and just attacked me and not cared there were people around. But I was young and stupid and had never been around any type of violence to think something like that would happen to me. That could have been the experience with the photographer, if you are not around it, you just don't think it will happen to you. very sad. I think I would probably instinctively hold on to the camera just because of the images more than the camera.

Pentaxis · 10-03-2015, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by batmobile

We do not know exactly what happened and the man lies dead. He *could* have shown defensive wounds that suggest he fought against a robber, but maybe he instinctively fought after being attacked and was unable to deescalate the situation. We do not know, but I think branding a murder victim an idiot is rather bad taste, especially in the absence of solid facts. He went there to take photos and is now dead. People make mistakes.... people are unlucky.... people do not always handle violent criminals the the perfect way. Oh, the benefits of hindsight.

Hello batmobile,

I agree entirely with your response. The person who used the expression "Take your moral outrage elsewhere." is completely out of order. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know it.

**RobA_Oz** · 10-03-2015, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxis

Hello batmobile,

I agree entirely with your response. The person who used the expression "Take your moral outrage elsewhere." is completely out of order. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know it.

Someone who's always right never knows when they're wrong...

While it's hard to refute the assertion that you shouldn't fight back in some situations, look at where that's got the victims of massacres, everywhere in the world. Nobody knows how they'd be in that identical situation, even if they'd been in similar ones. You don't necessarily do things out of a considered decision-making process - sometimes instinct kicks in and over-rides your own best interests, and I'd say that's more likely the case here than the stupidity that our judgmental friend asserts.

10-03-2015, 08:10 AM	#1
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Laurent Schwebel Killed Well Known French Photographer Fatally Stabbed While Taking Photos

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10-03-2015, 08:27 AM	#2
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Some people just don't get it. Usually, people steal stuff, because they are desperate. And you don't want to mess with desperate people.

10-03-2015, 08:40 AM - 2 Likes	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Tragic. I agree if the report is accurate that this was a poor choice and yet still tragic. I can imagine being stupid and making the same choice without thinking it through. I can also imagine making the sane choice and letting the equipment go. The footsteps of another are easy to second guess.

10-03-2015, 08:47 AM - 3 Likes	#4
batmobile Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 47	We do not know exactly what happened and the man lies dead. He could have shown defensive wounds that suggest he fought against a robber, but maybe he instinctively fought after being attacked and was unable to deescalate the situation. We do not know, but I think branding a murder victim an idiot is rather bad taste, especially in the absence of solid facts. He went there to take photos and is now dead. People make mistakes.... people are unlucky.... people do not always handle violent criminals the the perfect way. Oh, the benefits of hindsight.

10-03-2015, 09:07 AM	#5
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Who knows what he did? And even if he fought back, that doesn't mean we should speak ill of him. Sure, maybe he did something unwise, but it was not a fate he deserved. Tragic.

10-03-2015, 09:17 AM - 1 Like	#6
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,104	Tragedy is just that. Instinctive response is just that, not reasoned reaction based on knowledge of statistics of consequences. If someone grabbed your camera bag from behind, would you just let it go or reflexively grab and resist? It is well worth tracking down the memorial posting of 51 selected images by Laurent Schwebel. I found them inspiring, if not humbling and intimidating. Some amazing captures.

10-03-2015, 09:21 AM	#7
csa Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Montana mountains Posts: 10,133	We can all second guess what we would do under the same circumstances; whether a cool head would prevail, and let the equipment go, or whether a reaction to hang onto, or retrieve the equipment would take over. We should all hope that we are never faced with that decision.

10-03-2015, 09:23 AM - 2 Likes	#8
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by dcshooter This guy's own stupid decisions both before and after the robbery unfortunately were huge contributing factors leading to his death, and to pretend t Nobody is denying that or pretending. But I still feel it is odd to immediately call him a jackass and an idiot for getting murdered. He is still the victim, even if he resisted, thus angering the attackers. He probably didn't know those statistics or judged the situation differently. And he paid for it with his life. Ridicule is the last thing he deserves. And yeah, hope none of us ever have to face such a situation - or at least that we face it with better results RIP

10-03-2015, 09:27 AM - 4 Likes	#9
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,104	I will put in another objection to blaming the victim. It's too much like the pathetic attitude toward victims of rape: 1) they enticed their attackers by the manner of their dress or the way they walked or what they said or their willingness to have a drink; 2) they were injured or killed because they resisted instead of "just enjoying it." Totally medieval attitudes.

10-03-2015, 10:13 AM	#10
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Tragic. Extraordinary photos from Laurent Schwebel. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that there is a certain amount of aggressiveness in this world. This is often persons not responsible for the misery of others who pays the high price.

10-03-2015, 10:44 AM	#11
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by WPRESTO I will put in another objection to blaming the victim. It's too much like the pathetic attitude toward victims of rape: 1) they enticed their attackers by the manner of their dress or the way they walked or what they said or their willingness to have a drink; 2) they were injured or killed because they resisted instead of "just enjoying it." Totally medieval attitudes. I think that is a bit of a stretch and a very first world view of this. But I am the first to agree that victim shaming isn't helpful in this case. I think I would let my gear go but I could be swept up in the moment and foolishly could make the wrong decision. (Clarification: the parallel to rape victim isn't entirely stretched but assuming that there is no responsibility on the part of the victim to bear in mind surroundings and avoid undue heroism is where I differ in my view. I still think it is easy to armchair quarterback and say I'd do xyz but no one here can be certain.)

10-03-2015, 11:03 AM - 1 Like	#12
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Pursuing someone who robbed me... I used to be too smart for that stuff, now I'm just too old for that stuff. That's the thing about getting old, you can't even do a lot of the really stupid stuff you used to do. People think you're smarter. No, you're just incapacitated. Blaming the victim and being intelligent are two different things. The cops once advised me to move because of a crazy man who lived down stairs. They said, "We can't be here every minute and do you really want to put your life in the hands of our response time?" AT this time, I don't even care about what "should be", I'm not going to die over my "right" to confront criminals. That's not even in the charter of rights.

10-03-2015, 11:23 AM	#13
Murfy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 803	Very sad. I remember being young and stupid and chasing after a party of 4 who walked out on a check while I was waiting tables, the dash and dine, although they got up one at a time and left. One did pay me 'oh I thought they got the check', probably because I made a scene in front of a restaurant, but the boss told me to never do it again because he could have turned around and just attacked me and not cared there were people around. But I was young and stupid and had never been around any type of violence to think something like that would happen to me. That could have been the experience with the photographer, if you are not around it, you just don't think it will happen to you. very sad. I think I would probably instinctively hold on to the camera just because of the images more than the camera.

10-03-2015, 02:54 PM	#14
Pentaxis Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 195	Originally posted by batmobile We do not know exactly what happened and the man lies dead. He could have shown defensive wounds that suggest he fought against a robber, but maybe he instinctively fought after being attacked and was unable to deescalate the situation. We do not know, but I think branding a murder victim an idiot is rather bad taste, especially in the absence of solid facts. He went there to take photos and is now dead. People make mistakes.... people are unlucky.... people do not always handle violent criminals the the perfect way. Oh, the benefits of hindsight. Hello batmobile, I agree entirely with your response. The person who used the expression "Take your moral outrage elsewhere." is completely out of order. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know it.

10-03-2015, 03:19 PM	#15
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by Pentaxis Hello batmobile, I agree entirely with your response. The person who used the expression "Take your moral outrage elsewhere." is completely out of order. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know it. Someone who's always right never knows when they're wrong... While it's hard to refute the assertion that you shouldn't fight back in some situations, look at where that's got the victims of massacres, everywhere in the world. Nobody knows how they'd be in that identical situation, even if they'd been in similar ones. You don't necessarily do things out of a considered decision-making process - sometimes instinct kicks in and over-rides your own best interests, and I'd say that's more likely the case here than the stupidity that our judgmental friend asserts.