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02-02-2016, 05:11 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well I guess I don't understand the distinction. All I know is I have an iPad, it runs my business software, downloads my presentations, uploads my data captures and offers a (legally) limited view of my entire business network universe, WiFi or Cellular.

Probably all those apps work on an iPhone, too, Monochrome. People are *making* the presentations on their phones, and leaving the laptop at home.


The rumblings at Apple aren't just about the failed watch, it's also about falling tablet sales.

02-02-2016, 05:31 PM   #17
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My 6s+ isn't big enough to show a client or prospect. I suppose I could Bluetooth a keyboard but why bother? I turn the iPad around or connect to an external screen and control by touch. Using a full-size keyboard let's me complete fillable pdf forms which the client signs with a stylus. System encrypts, uploads to my network and I do the system arrangements real-time. Once I get supervisory approval I can electronically begin work while on-site. The whole thing can be done in an hour.

No more wet signatures, FedEx, paper storage - a completed contract is hard-delivered Negative-consent, next day.

Apple's quarterly comps get easier after June. The iPhone 6 upgrade cycle got all the 4s and half the 5s. Look for generation-skipping like MS operating systems, but on even numbers.
02-02-2016, 05:34 PM   #18
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I just gave a quick look at the links. So can't comment much on them.

However I do know one of our local chains is not doing well. They say that it's to do with phone cameras...they're getting better all the time. According to the camera store company, small cameras are not selling and interchangeable lens cameras aren't doing so well either. Mostly, the camera chain says because of camera phones improving all the time and people use them, not so much in particular the small, non interchangeable lens camera, anymore. Apparently more people seem to be satisfied with their camera phone. Also, a lot to do with ease of sending pix on social media, via phones.

That's what they say and you know, I believe them.

I use my cameras for pictures, but I have seen a couple of 8 X 10's taken with an IPhone (have I got that right ?) and frankly at 8 X 10...I was very impressed with the quality this phone camera produces.

If they (camera phones) keep improving and they will...I do wonder how interchangeable lens cameras will be doing in say...5-10 years. I'm not optimistic. I do know that if I haven't checked out by then , I will continue to use DSLR camera equipment. But that's me, I'm a geezer and I've been using 'sophisticated' cameras since '68. I'm an old dog and we all know what they say about old dogs.

If I was 19 years old again and just getting into camera equipment....hmmmnnn....hard to say which road I would take.

Last edited by lesmore49; 02-02-2016 at 05:39 PM.
02-02-2016, 06:13 PM   #19
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I just can't see the ergonomics working.

02-02-2016, 06:18 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My 6s+ isn't big enough to show a client or prospect.

Do what I do and AirPlay it to a real screen.
02-03-2016, 11:17 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
But d Es any of it matter, everything except serious photography will ultimately be done by smart phones, at which point mirror less will disappear.
Smart phones are mirrorless

This whole debate over mirrorless vs DSLRs is overplayed. There's more that connects serious photographers than separates us. We all want serious imaging devices and serious software to PP those images. Who really cares what the ratio is between mirrorless and DSLRs - it doesn't matter.

I'm really hoping that there are sufficient serious photographers out there that will sustain excellent cameras in the future. About 6 months ago, I joined a 16 person gallery where i'm the only photographer. The rest are painters, pastel, encaustic, and one fabric artist. They've treated me really well, but i'm more in awe of their paintings myself. If more of them had serious photographic devices, they could do a lot better, but all subsist on what look to be small PS and smart phones. Of course, they would also need to learn some photographic software - which is probably where my real advantage is.

I may be wrong, but i don't think that the photography enthusiasts will end up where high fidelity sound is. As i saw in a video recently, photography really is a graphic language. So i can't conceive that the world's population will ever give up on such an important language as imaging. Sure, the hardware and software will continue to change, but on the edge of that trend will be the serious enthusiasts and professionals.
02-03-2016, 11:43 AM   #22
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Last year especially the camera shipment to Europe was very low in december. The economy is still low and stores are having hard times surviving. So they probably ordered less camera's to end the year with as little inventory as possible. I do see Sales to Europe very low for 2016. Still wonder where the bottom will be. Two years ago I wrote that a decline to 25 million units was to be expected and we are still on our way to that level.

Big problem for the camera market is that there is little money to earn with photography compared to several years ago. I still see that market shrinking and that means less investment in hardware.
02-03-2016, 03:15 PM   #23
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People often do not buy what they do not need. Computers, cameras, tablets, ipods do not need to be replaced with a high frequency as long as they still do the job they were bought for. Tablets are not being replaced with new tablets, not always becuase of the new smart phone but because the tablet still does what the owner needs from it. Why replace your dslr if you are getting great results from it or buy the latest version of the HD lens to replace your SMC lens.

I have no intension of replacing my K5IIs or my computer or my tablet or either of my iPods in the next year or even three unless lost or broken. There are no reasons for doing so on a regular basis, not like the upgrading of the first three generations of digital cameras or the early computers. Sales will continue to decline unless and until there are great reasons for upgrading what you currently use. For some on this forum the FF is the reason but others have stated that they have little or no reason to do so. There is a guy at work who has bought every iPhone on the first week of it being available, but people like him are not the majority. Soon there will be little reason to upgrade the iPhone each time either.

Times will be tough on the manufacturers as they built their current business model on rapid replacement by existing customers upgrading to a higher model or a new model. That has slown down draistically and I am not sure what their answer will be. Perhaps we will see less new models coming out each year, sort of like Nikon with their single digit models. I am not good at forecasting but I do see people using what look like older models of cameras either point and shoot up to dslr which mean no new sales from them. My only prediction is that a larger percentage of lenses sold will be the higher quality ones and faster ones and less cheap zooms and less bodies even if the number of users does not change drastically.

There is still a market for 5 grand turntables but I know what you mean Phil about that market.

Myself I cannot see buying much in photo gear new in the few years, not because I cannot afford it but because I do not need it and there are other things to spend my money on, this past fall two kayaks, more travelling and we got our third TV in 40 year. I will not stop using the Pentax gear I already own because it is great and works how it should. I do not see most of the photographers I know buying as much gear as they used to because they have great gear.

02-04-2016, 08:48 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
There is still a market for 5 grand turntables but I know what you mean Phil about that market.
Hey how did you know I was in the market for a second turntable and 5k was my max budget?

Phil.
02-04-2016, 08:56 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Hey how did you know I was in the market for a second turntable and 5k was my max budget?

Phil.
I work for the government and we know everything about you.


Last spring we finally got around to getting a new cartridge and went to a high end audio shop owned by a fellow photographer and he was showing me ones that were in that price range. I spent $100 on the cartridge and bought a new pre amp and our Sony PX55 has never sounded as good.

funny thing is he is into high end stereo and home theatre but does not understand why anyone would want to shoot film.

Come out to the Hat and save on the provincial sales tax, we have none.
02-04-2016, 10:26 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
I work for the government and we know everything about you.


Last spring we finally got around to getting a new cartridge and went to a high end audio shop owned by a fellow photographer and he was showing me ones that were in that price range. I spent $100 on the cartridge and bought a new pre amp and our Sony PX55 has never sounded as good.

funny thing is he is into high end stereo and home theatre but does not understand why anyone would want to shoot film.

Come out to the Hat and save on the provincial sales tax, we have none.
Yeah audio is also a fun hobby and can make photography look cheep!

I got my cassette desk rebuilt last year and am back into make "compilation" tapes... (I used to give them to all my friends, but no one seems to have a working deck anymore.)

I have bought a lot of used camera gear from Alberta (Vintage Visuals in Calgary), but not any audio. I bought a majority of my audio gear in Portland, Oregon (also no tax) back in the early 1990's, as I new the owner of an audio store. Great guy but long retired. He even met me half way in Seattle once, to deliver my current speakers.

Phil.
02-04-2016, 04:26 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnhilvert Quote
Latest Camera & Imaging Products Association data shows continued decline in shipment of global market for interchangeable lens cameras (ILC). However mirrorless ILC devices showed positive growth,

http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201512_e.pdf and http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2015_e.pdf


CIPA's outlook for 2016 is at http://cipa.jp/documents/e/PRESS%20RELEASE20160201_e.pdf
Thanks John for your post. The Cipa outlook for 2016 is an interesting article to read. It recounts the history of digital camera sales back to the first decline in 2009, then the catastropic earthquake in Eastern Japan that affected production in 2011, and the subsequent camera sales declines to the present. 5% decline predicted for 2016. People want simple answers, but as always, there's more than one factor at work.

At this location: Sony's latest financial results show camera unit sales down, operating income up: Digital Photography Review They report that Sony unit sales are down for Sales in 2015 but operating income is up. And below that is another title for Canon saying the same thing. Sony, Canon and Nikon have all done the same thing, deemphasized commodity sales on lower margin cameras and emphasized more premium high profit cameras.

Mirrorless companies did very well in 2015, they grabbed off 25% of ILC sales, roughly for the first time ever against the traditionally impregnable Canon/Nikon duopoly. I don't think Ricoh had any other choice but to produce a FF DSLR. APS cameras, no matter how well built or by whom, just didn't command the kind of price structure needed for operating profits. To see Pentax selling K3 variants down around $800 and Sony selling the A6000 for less shows how bad the market is.

I think the photography market is becoming even more niche than before. Drone cameras, Gopro action type cameras, DSLRs, mirrorless, smart phones and tablets all have their customer segments that need/want them. I don't think any of these segments are going away anytime soon.


QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Tablet are becoming a business tool. We have an iTable at HQ (awesome presentation and collaboratin device)
Exactly. We all know how we want OUR cameras to be, but none of us know all the other segment cultures out there. We all, including me, pontificate on our narrow points of view, but we don't know what we don't know I didn't know until monochrome described it, how useful tablets are in business. There must be many more examples of uses we aren't familiar with.

Last edited by philbaum; 02-04-2016 at 04:32 PM.
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