[mecrox]

Your assumption is that there is someone to "blame." I have no problem with Ricoh's decisions. The gear works well and I doubt a "in-house" Ricoh/Pentax designed 15-30 f2.8 would function much better or be significantly cheaper than the Tamron version.

Clearly Ricoh is a relatively conservative company, not prone to making wild forays into the market, but they have invested in Pentax and released very nice gear that is capable of taking great photos.

That's good enough for me.

The rumour is that here are no rumours, hence the problem with this thread: it is going round in circles.

There's a potential bind in rebadging too many third-party lenses. It risks devaluing the marque and gives folks fewer reasons to buy into it since a Nikon, say, plus the Tamron (or Sigma or Tokina) originals would be no less effective but probably less costly (and might well come with far superior warranties in the case of the lenses). Pentax really do need to keep demonstrating their expertise and heritage as an optics company even if that is not possible with every lens. They had to get three f2.8 zooms out of the door and perhaps this squeeze on resources is a one-off.

Yes, Ricoh are conservative. But they do have the occasional wild foray, hence the Theta. I believe that has done quite well.

[JPT]

Yes, very interesting this questionnaire... I wonder, was it commanded by Ricoh Imaging Japan? There's a slight chance it was a local initiative (without support of the mothership).
But, if it's Ricoh Imaging Japan who's asking "what do you want"... that means the K-mount FF is no longer an experiment, and they decided to properly support it.

I'm pretty sure this comes from Ricoh Japan originally. Last September they conducted a very similar survey in Japan. I posted about in the thread below.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/304127-rico...ns-survey.html

It makes me think that the items that ended up prioritised on the roadmap shown at CP+ this February may have been directly influenced by the results of that survey in Japan. If you think about it that way, the lens survey serves as a hint as to what Ricoh means by "Large Aperture" on the roadmap, because only f1.4 lenses are referred to like that in the survey, and certain focal lengths are referred to as ultra wide, wide and so on.

So "Wide Angle Single Focus" means either 28mm or 35mm f1.8 (probably not f1.4). "Large Aperture Standard Single Focus" probably means 50mm f1.4. "Large Aperture Medium Telephoto Single Focus" probably means 85mm f1.4. Large Aperture Ultra Wide Single Focus" probably means 24mm f1.4.

The follow-on thought is that if they are repeating the exercise now with an international audience, does that mean they are planning for the next batch of lenses to be designed?

[Kunzite]

Good news, thank you for reminding us about the Japanese survey.
Maybe they're also preparing to become less Japan-centric?

[RonHendriks1966]

This is not excusing Ricoh by blaming Hoya, is being realistic about Pentax' situation. As for what is Ricoh doing, in the recent annual Securities reports we can see they allocated ~4,300 million Yen for the FY ending in March 2015, ~6,700 million Yen for FY ending in March 2016, and ~4,100 million Yen for FY ending in March 2017, for "Increase production of digital cameras ,etc.". They are doing something.

I didn't see those numbers, at least not in this way. That is 125 million us dollar or so in three years. I doubt that this is allocated to the camera business. Investing 40 million dollar in this fiscal year in the camera business is something I don't see happening.

[aurele]

I'm pretty sure this comes from Ricoh Japan originally. Last September they conducted a very similar survey in Japan. I posted about in the thread below.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/304127-rico...ns-survey.html

It makes me think that the items that ended up prioritised on the roadmap shown at CP+ this February may have been directly influenced by the results of that survey in Japan. If you think about it that way, the lens survey serves as a hint as to what Ricoh means by "Large Aperture" on the roadmap, because only f1.4 lenses are referred to like that in the survey, and certain focal lengths are referred to as ultra wide, wide and so on.

So "Wide Angle Single Focus" means either 28mm or 35mm f1.8 (probably not f1.4). "Large Aperture Standard Single Focus" probably means 50mm f1.4. "Large Aperture Medium Telephoto Single Focus" probably means 85mm f1.4. Large Aperture Ultra Wide Single Focus" probably means 24mm f1.4.

The follow-on thought is that if they are repeating the exercise now with an international audience, does that mean they are planning for the next batch of lenses to be designed?

Ricoh France did the same survey here. There was listed focal lenght and aperture from 12 or 14 to 85mm between f1.4 and f1.8 most of the time. There was also question "What do you prioritize when buying a Wide angle / normal / tele ?" and there was many answer possible like Rendering, color, size, weight, sharpness, silent focusing, fast focusing, WR, etc.

It was a good survey because it was quite precise and allowed to say "i'd like a 85mm, that is f1.4 that is silent focusing, fast, sharp" or "I'd like a light 85mm f1.8 or f2, but sharp" ...
The drawback is that is was quite long to fill.

[RonHendriks1966]

And they do. They just dont throw money in the pit. Building stone by stone..And thats the way to do it in long term.



He is negative most of the time no matter what i say.

I frazed it wrong, since it wasn't personal to you. But there is a history on this forum for blaiming Hoya for things happening for the past 6-7 years. At some point one has to stop with that. It is like the serie killer that had to kill all the girls in the Village because his childhood was so wrong. There are times that decision's are made within the company and that's that.

[mecrox]

I frazed it wrong, since it wasn't personal to you. But there is a history on this forum for blaiming Hoya for things happening for the past 6-7 years. At some point one has to stop with that. It is like the serie killer that had to kill all the girls in the Village because his childhood was so wrong. There are times that decision's are made within the company and that's that.

Lol, this probably isn't the comparison that would first come to many minds. I wonder whether Norman Bates was a keen Pentaxian?

Perhaps it is all really a mismatch between the dreams of some Pentax folk (all-encompassing) and the modern reality (a smaller, more tightly run and more Japan-focused concern, hence with more limited resources, than most of its competitors - and as a result, quite probably returning better financials, too).

In the meantime, the no-rumours rumour continues ...

[Kunzite]

I didn't see those numbers, at least not in this way. That is 125 million us dollar or so in three years. I doubt that this is allocated to the camera business. Investing 40 million dollar in this fiscal year in the camera business is something I don't see happening.

I reproduced the information exactly as I saw it in the Securities reports - official information coming from Ricoh - including even the " ,etc.".

[GlassJunkie]

If past record any indication... A new APSC flagship between now and mid 2017. A K1-II in 2018 and a real replacement in 2019-2020... And of course the cheap entry level too, most likely 2017 as K1 would start to not sell that much anymore and K1-II still not available to bump the sale. But it could be 2018 if they are late or whatever else.

In the end the discussion is then what? Over +/- 6 month delay? Then if that we are more in agreement than anything else really.

But really if the entry level appear to late, the K1 will act as entry level at $1000-1200 and it is not the best choice for Pentax as this would REALLY hurt any possibility to sell a K1-II.

Time to stir the pot...

In 2018 the K-1 will become the entry level. The K-1x or something else will be ABOVE the K-1 in specs.

A "Pro Grade" (whatever that means) 30+/- MP APSc is looming in 2017, cropped from a 50mp FF Sensor (if anyone can actually get it right, since the Canon is a paperweight)... Big buffer AND FPS speed would make it the top birder cam out. Lens library is more than sufficient to take the lead.

Q needs a big overhaul (or funeral).... FF 36mp (K-01x or whatever is coming).

The lens survey results will likely be implemented as our friend in Tokyo has mentioned. Expect a longer than 400mm 645 lens. Puts a bullet in Hassy...

Oh yeah.... One more SWAG (for you non-Yanks... Serious Wild A$$ed Guess)... Pentax releases the first Carbon fiber super tele...2019

[Kunzite]

I frazed it wrong, since it wasn't personal to you. But there is a history on this forum for blaiming Hoya for things happening for the past 6-7 years. At some point one has to stop with that. It is like the serie killer that had to kill all the girls in the Village because his childhood was so wrong. There are times that decision's are made within the company and that's that.

When the impact of Hoya's ownership will be mostly eliminated; only then it would become past and not present. And FTR is for what happened between 2008 and 2011 (inclusive), with very visible effects in the last part.
Realistically assessing Ricoh Imaging's capabilities is slightly different from mass murder. Just sayin'.

[Barry Pearson]

There's a potential bind in rebadging too many third-party lenses. It risks devaluing the marque and gives folks fewer reasons to buy into it since a Nikon, say, plus the Tamron (or Sigma or Tokina) originals would be no less effective but probably less costly (and might well come with far superior warranties in the case of the lenses). Pentax really do need to keep demonstrating their expertise and heritage as an optics company even if that is not possible with every lens. They had to get three f2.8 zooms out of the door and perhaps this squeeze on resources is a one-off.

Let's remember: they have released 5 FF zooms over the last 15 months or so. 2 were based on Tamron designs, so 3 were not.

The Tamron-based lenses are very good, and fill slots that needed to be filled. But the lenses that I use most are the other 3, and I think they are very good lenses which I use for most of what I do with the K-1. (And in fact I used 2 of them on the K-3-series before I got the K-1).

[Scintilla]

So "Wide Angle Single Focus" means either 28mm or 35mm f1.8 (probably not f1.4). "Large Aperture Standard Single Focus" probably means 50mm f1.4. "Large Aperture Medium Telephoto Single Focus" probably means 85mm f1.4.

I'm still hoping that it means something more like 100/2 or 135/2, as I always thought 85mm was considered short telephoto and not medium. I don't remember -- did they use the phrase "medium telephoto" in the survey?

[Nicolas06]

In 2018 the K-1 will become the entry level. The K-1x or something else will be ABOVE the K-1 in specs.

My only issue with that is:
- no much cashflow in 2017 from the FF
- As typically II version in Pentax land are subtle change over the same basis, the price between the I and II can't be too different otherwise it make the II extremely ininterresting.

Funilly everybody assume a K1-II like K3-II or K5-II. Because we have seen that in the past. Like we have seen K30; K50, K70 released between flagship model... But then suddenly this whole idea is wrong. It will not happen. Then there no reason to think there would be a K1-II neither or that it will follow the same release cycle of APSC bodies. (II version after around 2 years, next real one after 3 years).

But everybody has it view on that; so the only way to know is to wait.

A "Pro Grade" (whatever that means) 30+/- MP APSc is looming in 2017, cropped from a 50mp FF Sensor (if anyone can actually get it right, since the Canon is a paperweight)... Big buffer AND FPS speed would make it the top birder cam out. Lens library is more than sufficient to take the lead.

50MP FF cropped to APSC mean => 21.5MP.

Q needs a big overhaul (or funeral).... FF 36mp (K-01x or whatever is coming).

I would love that !

[Kunzite]

OK, let's analyze a bit this "too much Tamron" idea by looking at the known future lenses.
We have 5 lenses on the D FA roadmap; one is the fish-eye zoom, which is characteristic to Pentax (it would be their 3rd). From the 4 remaining primes:
- a wide-angle single focus lens, the Tamron 35mm f/1.8 might qualify but only if f/1.8 is not enough to call it "large aperture"
- a large aperture single focus lens, there's a Tamron 45mm f/1.8 but only if f/1.8 is enough to call it "large aperture"
- a large aperture medium telephoto single focus lens, there's a Tamron 85mm f/1.8 but only if f/1.8 is enough to call it "large aperture"
- a large aperture ultra wide-angle single focus lens, there's no corresponding Tamron.

I'm optimistic about the chances that these new lenses will not be Tamrons; partly based on this mismatch, and partly because the "mystery lenses" seen at the CP+ interview don't look like the Tamrons:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/314295-mystery-lens...interview.html

[Reed]

To be honest they look very alike tamrons SP series 85 and 45, just without that silver ring around mount and with other type rubber rings.I had both of that new Tamron lenses im my hands, and size of two "mystery lenses" on that picture seems almost the same