[Sterby]

I believe FF will be Pentax's answer to landscape / portrait photography, so the APS-C line needs a reason to exist. Thinking of the "reach" / "magnification" and burst advantages APS-C naturally has over FF, the natural call would be to push APS-C towards wildlife, sports, and events. In order for that to happen, they need to improve low-light performance and AF. The K-70 may be a first tentative step in that direction.

Nah, the K-70 has the same old AF from the K-50. It is more like an introduction to hybrid AF territory where Canon holds the patents so we are also left out of the goods, same with Nikons tracking AF patents. The K-70 is just a very much needed refreshment of the K-50 based on the K-S2.
Maybe a new flagship APS-C with the K-1 AF sensor improved for even better tracking but then again it will be still below Canikon tracking standard. No matter how usable it will be you can be sure the reviewers will run it down and compare it with the 7DII and D500 AF.
Ricoh needs a groundbreaking tracking algorithm that doesn't resemble Nikons patented "4D" algorithm but is just as quick and precise but I don't want to wait a decade for it.

[IchabodCrane]

Nah, the K-70 has the same old AF from the K-50. It is more like an introduction to hybrid AF territory where Canon holds the patents so we are also left out of the goods, same with Nikons tracking AF patents. The K-70 is just a very much needed refreshment of the K-50 based on the K-S2.
Maybe a new flagship APS-C with the K-1 AF sensor improved for even better tracking but then again it will be still below Canikon tracking standard. No matter how usable it will be you can be sure the reviewers will run it down and compare it with the 7DII and D500 AF.
Ricoh needs a groundbreaking tracking algorithm that doesn't resemble Nikons patented "4D" algorithm but is just as quick and precise but I don't want to wait a decade for it.

I didn't realize Nikon patented their algorithms. Has anyone here really studied them?

[Barry Pearson]

What if Ricoh would take some of the old FA primes and release them as HD D-FA variants? Same optical design, new coating and new packaging.

I think they might do this for the FA Limited lenses that are still in the current lens line-up. (As they did for the DA Limited lenses without pre-announcements in August 2013).

But once Ricoh have launched the 4 new FF primes on the Pentax FF roadmap, I think the main problem with the current Pentax FF lens line-up will continue to be the zooms. Of the 15 lenses on the current Pentax FF line-up, 10 are primes, 5 are zooms. That ratio is probably the wrong way round for typical customers rather than forum-enthusiasts.

I think Pentax FF zooms are needed in 3 (loose) categories:

1. Professional-standard or near-professional-standard FF zooms across the range. This has already been done well enough for the time being with the 4 such lenses released over the last 15 months or so.

2. "Affordable" smallish/lightish FF zooms with high image quality across a more limited range. Perhaps 3 are needed, and we already have the middle one of them, the 28-105mm.

3. "Miscellaneous". There is a Fisheye zoom on the FF roadmap. Other people have made good cases for some f/4 zooms somewhere in between categories "1" and "2". (A D FA 60-250mm f/4 based on the current DA* 60-250mm would be "interesting"!)

Are there any old FA lenses that could be brought up to date as these extra zooms? I suspect not, or one or two at the most.

---------- Post added 1st Sep 2016 at 05:35 AM ----------

I believe FF will be Pentax's answer to landscape / portrait photography, so the APS-C line needs a reason to exist.

The APS-C line already has good reasons (in addition to higher burst rates) to exist:

1. Cheaper, lighter, smaller. For many people, one or more of these is a good reason not to choose the FF line. (And the APS-C line has been capable of doing good landscapes and portraits for many years!)

2. Lots more Pentax lenses available. (There are about 40 current Pentax lenses that work fully on APS-C cameras, compared with the 15 of them that are officially FF lenses.

[mecrox]

The APS-C line already has good reasons (in addition to higher burst rates) to exist:

1. Cheaper, lighter, smaller. For many people, one or more of these is a good reason not to choose the FF line. (And the APS-C line has been capable of doing good landscapes and portraits for many years!)

2. Lots more Pentax lenses available. (There are about 40 current Pentax lenses that work fully on APS-C cameras, compared with the 15 of them that are officially FF lenses.

Strip out screwdrive lenses, older film-era lenses and SDM lenses (still at a very high sticker price), then now many lenses are in the current APS-C line-up? It's 2016, folks. And if people want markedly improved AF performance, then one needs modern lenses that are up to this more demanding task. With the exception of AF performance (highly arguable anyway, since this is totally dependent on intended use), Pentax bodies have never been a problem (usually they are excellent and feature-full). It's the lens catalogue.

[clackers]

Strip out screwdrive lenses, older film-era lenses and SDM lenses (still at a very high sticker price), then now many lenses are in the current APS-C line-up? It's 2016, folks. And if people want markedly improved AF performance, then one needs modern lenses that are up to this more demanding task. With the exception of AF performance (highly arguable anyway, since this is totally dependent on intended use), Pentax bodies have never been a problem (usually they are excellent and feature-full). It's the lens catalogue.

?

Cropped lineup's never been better or more modern. Since 2015, the D FA lineup has added 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 and 28-105. Primes on their way. :-)

[mecrox]

?

Cropped lineup's never been better or more modern. Since 2015, the D FA lineup has added 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 and 28-105. Primes on their way. :-)

My point related to APS-C lenses, not FF.

If one strips out screwdrive lenses and SDM lenses, my count is five modern lenses on APS-C:

18-50mm
16-85mm
18-135mm
55-300mm
20-40mm

Make that 7 if one includes the big FF-capable long lenses, the 70-200mm and 150-450mm (I'm not counting the rather outlandish 560mm) which might be of interest to wildlifers. So one can see that if folks want much-improved AF, then there is work to do because better AF involves optimising lenses for it, at least on APS-C. But if all the work on modern new lenses goes into FF ones, then where does that leave APS-C?

[rawr]

Make that 7 if one includes the big FF-capable long lenses

The new 28-105 D FA is still quite a useful focal length (42-152mm equiv) on APS-C. On APS-C it performs really well.

[clackers]

My point related to APS-C lenses, not FF.

If one strips out screwdrive lenses and SDM lenses, my count is five modern lenses on APS-C:

18-50mm
16-85mm
18-135mm
55-300mm
20-40mm

Make that 7 if one includes the big FF-capable long lenses, the 70-200mm and 150-450mm (I'm not counting the rather outlandish 560mm) which might be of interest to wildlifers. So one can see that if folks want much-improved AF, then there is work to do because better AF involves optimising lenses for it, at least on APS-C. But if all the work on modern new lenses goes into FF ones, then where does that leave APS-C?

The D FA lenses all work on your K-3 or whatever, so I'm struggling to agree with you. That's a Canon or Nikon illness, this DX/FX stuff.

The K-mount is and always was a 35mm mount, unlike your m43 gear. You simply can't put a bigger sensor in those.

[reh321]

My point related to APS-C lenses, not FF.

If one strips out screwdrive lenses and SDM lenses, my count is five modern lenses on APS-C:

18-50mm
16-85mm
18-135mm
55-300mm
20-40mm

Make that 7 if one includes the big FF-capable long lenses, the 70-200mm and 150-450mm (I'm not counting the rather outlandish 560mm) which might be of interest to wildlifers. So one can see that if folks want much-improved AF, then there is work to do because better AF involves optimising lenses for it, at least on APS-C. But if all the work on modern new lenses goes into FF ones, then where does that leave APS-C?

There is no reason not to use the FF variants - other than weight and cost. But once you get past guys like me, who will be mostly satisfied by two lenses - 18-50mm + 55-300 or 18-135 + 55-300 - weight and cost won't be much of a hindrance anyway. Pentax has only so much lens design and manufacturing resources, and they need to focus those on the FF line, which has been neglected for the past ten years.

[Barry Pearson]

Strip out screwdrive lenses, older film-era lenses and SDM lenses (still at a very high sticker price), then now many lenses are in the current APS-C line-up? It's 2016, folks. And if people want markedly improved AF performance, then one needs modern lenses that are up to this more demanding task. With the exception of AF performance (highly arguable anyway, since this is totally dependent on intended use), Pentax bodies have never been a problem (usually they are excellent and feature-full). It's the lens catalogue.

I've been using SDM lenses (such as the DA* 60-250mm f/4) for many years without problems and with considerable success.

(I've never owned the DA* 15-60mm or DA* 60-135mm, which I believe were the ones with most SDM problems).

?
Cropped lineup's never been better or more modern. Since 2015, the D FA lineup has added 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 and 28-105. Primes on their way. :-)

Quite!

The new 28-105 D FA is still quite a useful focal length (42-152mm equiv) on APS-C. On APS-C it performs really well.

Yes, indeed! Perhaps one of the sharpest Pentax lenses on an APS-C camera.

My point related to APS-C lenses, not FF.
If one strips out screwdrive lenses and SDM lenses, my count is five modern lenses on APS-C:

18-50mm
16-85mm
18-135mm
55-300mm
20-40mm

Make that 7 if one includes the big FF-capable long lenses, the 70-200mm and 150-450mm (I'm not counting the rather outlandish 560mm) which might be of interest to wildlifers. So one can see that if folks want much-improved AF, then there is work to do because better AF involves optimising lenses for it, at least on APS-C. But if all the work on modern new lenses goes into FF ones, then where does that leave APS-C?

I bought the D FA 70-200mm, D FA 150-450mm, and D FA 24-70mm, for use on K-3-series before I had a K-1.

The latest Pentax camera is an APS-C camera. The latest Pentax K-mount lens is an APS-C lens, with a more advanced mount than any Pentax FF lens. The Pentax APS-C line-up appears to be evolving well.

The D FA lenses all work on your K-3 or whatever, so I'm struggling to agree with you.
....
The K-mount is and always was a 35mm mount, unlike your m43 gear.

Yes! Right from the start of Pentax APS-C dSLRs, the lenses have always been a mixture of FF and APS-C lenses. Then the line-up evolves over time.

For example, the 2005 "DA and D FA" roadmap's line-up had 6 lenses, of which 2 were "D FA". Now the current Pentax lenses which work on Pentax APS-C cameras total about 40.

[mecrox]

The D FA lenses all work on your K-3 or whatever, so I'm struggling to agree with you. That's a Canon or Nikon illness, this DX/FX stuff.

The K-mount is and always was a 35mm mount, unlike your m43 gear. You simply can't put a bigger sensor in those.

My point is Pentax appear to be catching this "illness". It doesn't matter how many lenses technically work on APS-C. To get back to the original point, what matters is how many modern lenses there are for APS-C, because the older ones won't cut it if Pentax introduce increasingly sophisticated AF which is where this conversation started. Are folks queuing up to use screwdrive or SDM-style lenses on a D500 or a 7D Mark II? Because regarding AF proficiency, that's surely where we all want Pentax to be in a few years. But for that, you need a portfolio of good modern lenses. My impression is that some folks go on about how many lenses technically work on APS-C but when one starts asking a few questions about said lenses, they promptly say that they use FF anyway and expect future lens development to concentrate on that. It's a disconnect. What I think we are looking at is that Pentax are going to do exactly what Canon and Nikon have done over APS-C during the coming few years, but folks are in denial about it.

[Barry Pearson]

To get back to the original point, what matters is how many modern lenses there are for APS-C, because the older ones won't cut it if Pentax introduce increasingly sophisticated AF which is where this conversation started. Are folks queuing up to use screwdrive or SDM-style lenses on a D500 or a 7D Mark II? Because regarding AF proficiency, that's surely where we all want Pentax to be in a few years. But for that, you need a portfolio of good modern lenses. My impression is that some folks go on about how many lenses technically work on APS-C but when one starts asking a few questions about said lenses, they promptly say that they use FF anyway and expect future lens development to concentrate on that.

Here is a list of the 6 modern Pentax K-mount lenses, none of the them just screw-drive, none of them old-SDM, all WR or better, all very good for Pentax APS-C cameras, released in the last 16 months or so:

Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
Pentax D FA 15-30mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
Pentax D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
Pentax D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
Pentax D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW
Pentax D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW

I have all 5 of the D FA lenses in this list, and I use both the 70-200mm and 150-450mm a lot for action photography such as motorsports and "things in flight". (I used both of these on K-3-series APS-C cameras for those subjects before I had a K-1).

Note: 6 lenses for APS-C cameras; only 5 lenses for the K-1.

[RonHendriks1966]

Here is a list of the 6 modern Pentax K-mount lenses, none of the them just screw-drive, none of them old-SDM, all WR or better, all very good for Pentax APS-C cameras, released in the last 16 months or so:

Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
Pentax D FA 15-30mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
Pentax D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
Pentax D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
Pentax D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW
Pentax D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW

I have all 5 of the D FA lenses in this list, and I use both the 70-200mm and 150-450mm a lot for action photography such as motorsports and "things in flight". (I used both of these on K-3-series APS-C cameras for those subjects before I had a K-1).

Note: 6 lenses for APS-C cameras; only 5 cameras for the K-1.

That is a very expensive list.

[surfar]

only 5 lenses for the K-1.

I use the first DA 55-300mm on my K1, in good light it works well.


Ive asked in another thread about the new 55/300 in FF mode, no response yet?

[biz-engineer]

Realistic rumor: Pentax K1 silver edition with leather , at fotokina.