[Barry Pearson]

I suspect it's unlikely that Pentax will produce any new lenses (other than possible updates to old lenses, such as the FA Limiteds) that use screwdrive.

I agree.

I think the choice will be between KAF3 (with no screwdrive but mechanical aperture stop-down) and KAF4 (with no screwdrive and no mechanical aperture stop-down).

And since the K-S1, K-S2, K-70, K-3II, and K-1, (the 2014 and later cameras), all support KAF4, I expect a rapid switch to KAF4.

[asahi man]

There is no more development of new lenses with old screw drive or old micro SDM drive.
That's what Pentax told.
Only if an older lens will be back in production,it's possible that it get a screw drive.
Complete new lenses are out of screw drive.
Best regards

[virusn3t]

There is no more development of new lenses with old screw drive or old micro SDM drive.
That's what Pentax told.
Only if an older lens will be back in production,it's possible that it get a screw drive.
Complete new lenses are out of screw drive.
Best regards

What about KAF3? It will be dropped for the KAF4 on new (2018 and beyond) designs?

[asahi man]

I don't know,sorry.
I will ask this and other the Europe and the Tokyo Gang at Photokina in Germany.
I also got an interesting answer about my converter questions.
Let's hope for the best and right things,Ricoh is listening and again pushed up the development team in Tokyo for optic systems/photo lenses.
Best regards

[mecrox]

Mmm strange, IMO doing that kind of things, I'd have done the opposite, using (on an FF sensor) FF lenses for WA and normal (maybe short-medium tele) and moving to crop (whatever the lens APS or FF) to increase reach but maybe that's just me.

The reason he gives for choosing a Sony 6300 is weight/size plus very good AF plus fast fps, and the closest alternative in his arsenal was a Canon FF. He discounted his Fuji gear because he felt AF and fps weren't on a par with either of those. And he discounted renting too. His party was hiking, using seaplanes with strict weight limits, he can't carry that much stuff, etc. Pics from his trip look good to me. That said, most articles in the genre throw an element of experimentation into the mix to make them more newsworthy. "Man photographs bear with vanilla DSLR" is hardly hold the front page.

[Barry Pearson]

Assuming for the moment that Ricoh has a coherent strategy for the K-mount range, we will learn a lot about it from the next APS-C flagship camera, if there is one. This strategy matters to most of us here, so it isn't surprising that there is a lot of speculation (and fantasy!) about it.

We have tantalising glimpses of the consequences of the strategy:
5 recent modern FF zooms.
The K-1.
The FF lenses roadmap (4 primes, 1 zoom).
The K-70.
The new DA 55-300 lens with the new KAF4 mount.

It seems to me that Ricoh's K-mount strategy could be be set at two main extremes, with variants in between. And solid information about an APS-C flagship camera would let us know where it stands.

Extreme 1: No new APS-C flagship camera. No replacement/upgrade to the K-3-series. Instead, churning the lower-tier APS-C cameras, with replacements over time for the non-flagship APS-C cameras, just like the K-70 has done so far. The K-mount FF range is the mainline future, the K-1 is the only flagship camera, and over (a long) time Pentax APS-C users are expected/encouraged to "upgrade" to FF.

Extreme 2: New high-specification APS-C flagship camera. A worthy successor to the K-3-series, combining the best of the K-3II itself, the K-70, and any transferable technology from the K-1. Updated sensor, SAFOX 12 or better AF, articulated LCD, better video, higher burst rate (perhaps up to about 10 fps), plus a few surprises. (Obviously it will drive KAF4 lenses; all new K-mount cameras will. But it will still drive earlier mounts; now is not the time to withdraw support for screw-focusing lenses!) The K-mount future will continue to include lots of development to both FF and APS-C lines. The FF line is not "an upgrade route", but a separate take-it-or-leave-it range. Most sales will continue to be for APS-C users.

These extremes have such different implications for many of us that it is not surprising that we want to know! And whatever Ricoh might say, or hint, it needs something tangible like a new camera (or no new camera for years) to confirm it.

(I have no reliable information or plausible rumours about this to offer! Sorry).

[Kunzite]

Why is the 2nd option "extreme"? Is it because of the 10fps burst rate? Otherwise, it looks like I'm reading about a very typical new Pentax APS-C flagship...
And why should we even consider "Extreme 1"? A non-zero probability is not the same as a non-negligible probability.

[mecrox]

Assuming for the moment that Ricoh has a coherent strategy for the K-mount range, we will learn a lot about it from the next APS-C flagship camera, if there is one. This strategy matters to most of us here, so it isn't surprising that there is a lot of speculation (and fantasy!) about it.

We have tantalising glimpses of the consequences of the strategy:
5 recent modern FF zooms.
The K-1.
The FF lenses roadmap (4 primes, 1 zoom).
The K-70.
The new DA 55-300 lens with the new KAF4 mount.

It seems to me that Ricoh's K-mount strategy could be be set at two main extremes, with variants in between. And solid information about an APS-C flagship camera would let us know where it stands.

Extreme 1: No new APS-C flagship camera. No replacement/upgrade to the K-3-series. Instead, churning the lower-tier APS-C cameras, with replacements over time for the non-flagship APS-C cameras, just like the K-70 has done so far. The K-mount FF range is the mainline future, the K-1 is the only flagship camera, and over (a long) time Pentax APS-C users are expected/encouraged to "upgrade" to FF.

Extreme 2: New high-specification APS-C flagship camera. A worthy successor to the K-3-series, combining the best of the K-3II itself, the K-70, and any transferable technology from the K-1. Updated sensor, SAFOX 12 or better AF, articulated LCD, better video, higher burst rate (perhaps up to about 10 fps), plus a few surprises. (Obviously it will drive KAF4 lenses; all new K-mount cameras will. But it will still drive earlier mounts; now is not the time to withdraw support for screw-focusing lenses!) The K-mount future will continue to include lots of development to both FF and APS-C lines. The FF line is not "an upgrade route", but a separate take-it-or-leave-it range. Most sales will continue to be for APS-C users.

These extremes have such different implications for many of us that it is not surprising that we want to know! And whatever Ricoh might say, or hint, it needs something tangible like a new camera (or no new camera for years) to confirm it.

(I have no reliable information or plausible rumours about this to offer! Sorry).

My guess or speculation is that the K70 is rather a stopgap camera designed for a fairly short life at full price though perhaps for a much longer one at discount. The reason is the amount of stuff carried over from earlier models, in particular the AF which is a bit subpar compared to its peers, while the new on-sensor stuff sounds promising but also like a case of "wait for the Mark II version". Perhaps producing the K1 simply took up much of Ricoh's resources over the past year or two.

So I would expect the K70 to be joined within a year by a newer model with AF significantly improved over both the K3II and the K1, perhaps a new metering module and generally building on the K70's new features such as mount #4, the accelerator chip, better video (if a processing chip allows it) and so forth, together with continued refinements to pixel shift. All these new features will be shared in various ways by future FF and 645 cameras. It would be a flagship even if it wasn't treated as such and was simply called K80 or something. If Ricoh include twin card slots, then it would definitely be a successor to the K3 line.

If Ricoh allow their APS-C line to go fallow then they would be putting at risk 80-90 per cent of their DSLR customers since if Ricoh persuaded even 20 per cent of them to move to FF they would be doing better than Canon and Nikon. Going fallow to me would mean no new APS-C camera with Ricoh's best current tech between now and the end of 2017.

I don't see a big change to APS-C happening unless Ricoh decide to do something really major like refactor their whole business or move all smaller formats to mirrorless, stuff like that. They might, though, blend the two body shell lines into just the one. Once one strips out the marketing blurbery, there doesn't seem that much difference in the designs. A wild card is mount #4: we don't know Ricoh's plans for this over the next new body or two.

But this is Pentax - anything is possible.

[Nicolas06]

Why is the 2nd option "extreme"? Is it because of the 10fps burst rate? Otherwise, it looks like I'm reading about a very typical new Pentax APS-C flagship...
And why should we even consider "Extreme 1"? A non-zero probability is not the same as a non-negligible probability.

I agree.

For me, option 1 is a dangerous, in particular if there no entry level FF to replace the APSC flagship. K70 only a real upgrade to K5 and K50/K30 and K3-II still a worthy upgrade to K70 beside being 3 years old.

No continuing the APSC line will deny an upgrade path to most people until there an FF body at 1000$/€ or less. What that mean is many people that can't justify (or don't want) an FF for 1800€/$ will buy nothing.

If we continue the logic, most there are 100% sure there will be no downsized version of K1 and that we will not get a K1 until 3 more years. Basically nobody targeting highend will buy another camera before 3 years: the one that have K3 or K3-II already and stay in APSC or can't spend to much, have 0 options and the one that can, already did and will not buy a camera that not significant improvement over K1. If D810 vs D800 is any clue, that might be difficult so a good share may keep their K1 for 5-6 years. it will be more that the K1 entry level will be now afordable in 3 years (some think this isn't even going to happen: K1 will keep high price for VERY LONG time !).

People could buy lenses but for now we get only dedicated or extremely expensive FF lenses that APSC users are not very interrested in.

The company need money. They need their clients to spend money.

This could be huge gain in market share but again this is mostly an APSC affair. As again most of the sales are APSC. This require a presence is most brick and motar shops, lot of marketing and likely to fix a few things (better AF, better video) before it can really happen. I don't see that and that would take years anyway and the market shring continuously. If market share of Pentax twice in 3 year, that may mean they may sell only 20-30% more in the end. And they'll need the camera bodies to sell.

While likely a good seller, we can't hope of K70 to do that all by itself. In particular when the review show that while the high iso stuff put Pentax APSC body back to other APSC performers (A6300, D500, D7200) and is good, the whole video/in sensor pdaf sensor stuff is barely working. 1 single lens, AF in Live view still quite slow... Nothing to make non Pentaxian people dream if they ever going to read a review of it.

So for me to get some cash flow Pentax need either a cheap FF or a new APSC flagship. The target price would be similar, around 1000$/€ with the difference that the APSC body will be expected to be much more advanced for everything except sensor size and will go down in price faster and that a cheapo FF would be quite basic and keep its price for a long time.

Many here think a cheap FF would hurt K1 sales more and for this to be significant, I guess much more in their mind than it would raise sales from people not with Pentax yet wanting a cheap FF (increase market share) or from APSC user that find K1 too expensive. I do not agree, but if we follow this logic that cheapo FF is not acceptable in the short term, the only remaining solution is new APSC flagship. A very capable one. That people will want to updgrade too.... Maybe even that some K1 users will want to buy for some uses.

If I was to dream a bit, it'll need some 4K video, SR in video, improved LV AF toward K70 to match at least 70D there, the same improved high iso as K70 or a bit more refined. And for me there could be 2 options here:
- the classical DSLR path so with OVF and then introduce a new dedicated PDAF with more AF point (say around 50), newly tweaked algorithms and K1 coverage to have almost the same AF coverage in APSC as D500. That R&D saved for K1 successor !
- the EVF/mirrorless path that really NEED good LV AF and a decent EVF bundled but that will allows for a smaller/ligher body.

Some surprise would be quite nice. I don't know... Pixel shift that work handled and moving subjects thanks to very advanced algorithms, the 3thrd wheel of K1, SR that so efficiant that you can shoot handled shoot of 1s, A bokeh enhancement that would work directly on JPEG...

[D1N0]

I'm not accepting excuses such as "the corners don't matter for portraits"

Then don't buy lenses that cost less than $200,-

[Kunzite]

Nicolas, there is no such thing as "option 1". Pentax will not have a D500-level APS-C flagship anytime soon, but a K-3 successor will be made.

[Barry Pearson]

Why is the 2nd option "extreme"? Is it because of the 10fps burst rate? Otherwise, it looks like I'm reading about a very typical new Pentax APS-C flagship...
And why should we even consider "Extreme 1"? A non-zero probability is not the same as a non-negligible probability.

I called the 2nd option "extreme" because I don't think there is anything plausible beyond it. Not because I thought it was very unlikely; I think it will turn out to be the case.

I don't think we should worry about the 1st "extreme". I just wanted it on the table, mainly because I've seen concerns that it may happen. Sometimes in debates it is useful to identify people's concerns so that they won't feel ignored. It has the characteristic that if we simply knew that there would be a new flagship, we could dismiss that extreme without knowing any details.

(To some extent, I was actually talking to myself, but in public!)

[biz-engineer]

if we follow this logic that cheapo FF is not acceptable in the short term, the only remaining solution is new APSC flagship. A very capable one.

Having a K-3, what features would make you buy (a real decision) such APSC flagship ? Would you spend 1k for the 4k video ? or 10fps? anything else?

[ffking]

For what it's worth, I suspect that the the K-3ii was as much about trialling features for the K-1 - ironing out wrinkles and getting customer reaction to the lack of an on-board flash etc as about a serious upgrade to the K-3 (though it is an upgrade in some important ways, such as AF). IF that is Ricoh's logic, then we can probably see the K-70 partly in terms of testing out the new AF features for inclusion in a more advanced camera or more general use in the line-up.

[interested_observer]

A number of thoughts come to mind here.

• ASP-C - there needs to be a follow on to the K3II, and it needs to incorporate the K1 advances & feature set. There needs to be a feeder system / path from crop sensor to the full frame and/or MF. Cash flow to Ricoh is a combination of body and lens sales. The vast majority of Pentax users are and will continue to be crop sensor shooters for any number of reasons. This population needs to be supported, and requires a high end body. They will receive it. To not produce it would drive the majority of their customers elsewhere. This will not happen.

• Pentax / Ricoh and Trialing - The discussion so far has been centered on the Pentax line. ffking touches on the concept of trialing and I believe that concept is central to Ricoh's approach and overall business plan. However, I believe that we are going to see trialing across much wider swath of the overall business - and that amounts to the cross pollination between both the Pentax and Ricoh lines. Pulling both the full frame sensor and the 645 sensor into the GR line, especially with the entry of Fuji in to the MF market. Being able to buy / contract for larger numbers of both full frame and 645 sensors, will grow the economy of scale. You can either sell more K1 / 645Z units - or you can cause or create a market disruption with the introduction of another approach. They have this approach already established in the successful GR line. They will continue and expand this in terms of sensor size. They have the ability - they will use it.

• Lenses are the distinguishing factor. - Pentax is inter-changeable lenses, while Ricoh is fixed lenses. Everything else will wash back and forth between the product lines/brands. We have not seen this as of yet - but I think that the time is near. Enlarging the Ricoh line, will be setting up Pentax to move to a mirrorless body - whenever, be it 3, 5, or 7 years from now.