[emalvick]

I'm not too sure about the rebadged lenses and the reason for higher prices. Tamron has not made a habit of selling K-mount lenses under their own name at any different of a price than any other mount. Presumably, it isn't that much more costly to make their lenses with a K-mount, but then I guess the weather sealing and so forth is probably where the added cost for Tamron would come in.

Pentax hasn't really seemed to be all that into arbitrarily having things pricey. I own a nice mixture of Pentax, Tamron, and legacy Pentax lenses. I feel like everything has been worth what I've paid and more. And the legacy lenses often pay huge benefits in image quality vs. cost ratios.

[monochrome]

Well then, it would be a mistake for you to buy Pentax, maybe consider searching else where. Personally I would never tell some one with such a shopping list to even consider Pentax. I mean what the hell did you do? Go through the Pentax lens lineup and pick every lens they don't make? Get it through your thick skull. Pentax makes light portable glass, for folks like me, not beg heavy glass for folks like you. You're looking at the wrong company. Not every company does, or should do everything. Get over it.

Personally I hope Pentax never invest in that kind of glass. Others already do it. No need to re-invent the wheel.

Or as my studio teacher said, "Find the lens you love and buy the camera it goes on." Don't waste our time here. You've already said 'Pentax doesn't make the lens I love." Get on with your life.

Just exactly what is it you hope to accomplish coming to a Pentax forum, whining "Pentax doesn't make the lenses I need."

Patient "Doctor I'm getting a headache going through the Pentax lens line up, because they don't make anything i like."
Doctor " Don't do that."

Duh

@Normhead I have an old, old leather wing chair in my quiet room. (I don't have a man cave or an office or a playroom - just a room where I can sit and read). The seat cushion is fully compressed and the leather is worn to a shine, and it makes my backside hurt if I sit too long there. I told my doctor, as if he would tell me I had some sort of neuralgia or something.

He said, "Don't sit in that chair."

[Apapukas]

People like to know what you can do using the brand. It inspires them. People don't care much about what you can't do. It has no relevance unless you intend to switch brands.
But now I'm really curious, in what field of photography do you depend on 1.4 glass? Especially since modern AF systems are calibrated for ƒ2.8 so almost all 1.8, even lenses like the Sigma 18-35 1.8 have problems obtaining reliable focus. There are some Pentax options, like DA*55 1.4, and a few Sigma lenses, their 85 1.4 as well as an FA* 1.4, the Sigma 30 1.4etc.. You've tried these lenses and found them wanting?

OK< be honest, if you owned all the glass you've requested in K mount, how many would you carry at once and how many would always be home on the shelf?

Or is "lenses Pentax doesn't currently make that I want but might not pay for" all you find interesting?

Your great list of 1.4 glass is not accompanied by any explanation of what you would use them for or why 1.8 glass won't do.

I have to admit, of the port I know personally, I don't know a single guy like you.

"Dependant" is an exaggeration. Fast glass is a luxury item that is very useful in low light situations like Churches (some are really dark), shooting at night, events, indoors etc.

At the moment I shoot mostly with Sigma 35Art and Pentax 70mm on K3 and K5iis. I also carry 16-50 f/2.8 when I need more versatility and the 10-17 fisheye (looks nice in certain situations). Do I like this kit? Yes. Do I find myself wanting something wider, faster etc. sometimes? yes. Is it normal to want that? I think yes.

My ideal kit that I would carry to pretty much every shoot would be:

(On K1)
15-30 and 24-70 (available)
24mm f/1.4 or f/2 (not available yet)
35mm f/1.4 (available)
105mm f/2 (not available yet)

All should fit in the same backpack as the current kit.

---------- Post added 09-16-16 at 04:31 PM ----------

I'm not too sure about the rebadged lenses and the reason for higher prices. Tamron has not made a habit of selling K-mount lenses under their own name at any different of a price than any other mount. Presumably, it isn't that much more costly to make their lenses with a K-mount, but then I guess the weather sealing and so forth is probably where the added cost for Tamron would come in.

Pentax hasn't really seemed to be all that into arbitrarily having things pricey. I own a nice mixture of Pentax, Tamron, and legacy Pentax lenses. I feel like everything has been worth what I've paid and more. And the legacy lenses often pay huge benefits in image quality vs. cost ratios.

Small correction - Tamron is weather sealed too. Is it weather sealed to the same standards as Pentax version? Nobody knows. Pentax version doesn't have IS, cuz it is already in body. Shouldn't it be cheaper/easier to make if it requires less parts? I am not an optical designer or anything close but it would be interesting to hear other opinions.

[Winder]

If Pentax continuous to rebadge Tamron lenses, it means they are no longer capable of creating high grade lens. All they do is rebadge and bump the price ridiculously. Tamron 15-30 costs ~950 euro if you shoot Nikon/Canon, but if you shoot Pentax it will cost you 1600-1700.

Except for 70-200 which lets presume is not a rebadged Tamron, when was the last time Pentax created a truly stellar lens?

As long as new high quality glass is coming to market for the K-mount I don't care who makes it. One of the cost drivers for the K-mount version of the 15-30mm is the mechanical aperture arm and the low volume. With the new KAF4 mount (removing the need for the mechanical linkage) we should see low cost options. Sigma has repeatedly listed the mechanical linkage a an added cost to making K-mount versions of their lenses.

We should see prices come down for the new KAF4 mount.

[normhead]

As long as new high quality glass is coming to market for the K-mount I don't care who makes it. One of the cost drivers for the K-mount version of the 15-30mm is the mechanical aperture arm and the low volume. With the new KAF4 mount (removing the need for the mechanical linkage) we should see low cost options. Sigma has repeatedly listed the mechanical linkage a an added cost to making K-mount versions of their lenses.

We should see prices come down for the new KAF4 mount.

Actually if your going to discuss "not boring" how about KAF4?

[emalvick]

I've never seen Tamron tout their weather sealing, but then I haven't really looked closely at lenses in a few years, and it's been 5 years since I last bought a Tamron lens, which never said it was weather sealed.

As for requiring less parts... that isn't necessarily cheaper if you have to retool your production line for that purpose. I don't think it is so much about parts as it is about manufacturing. You potentially have to figure out how assembly works without a part or alternative parts (as may be the case if they have to use different weather sealing components).

I think this was the earlier argument. Even the mount could require a change in manufacturing. Changing manufacturing only pays off if you can manufacture a lot and sell a lot. This is why custom orders of anything are much more pricey than something that has been mass produced. I only commented before because Tamron and Sigma have made a habit of producing lenses with multiple mounts. Presumably, they manufacture lenses such that the mount is the last thing that gets assembled and that it's fairly easy to use different mounts. I'm sure there are slight tweaks elsewhere, but perhaps not much. Whatever it is, they don't really differentiate costs among the different mounts.

Thus there is something more than the mount making the renamed lenses more costly. It could be weather sealing (or not based on the previous post), or removing the image stabilization, just putting the Pentax name on the lens, or something else.

[Winder]

Thus there is something more than the mount making the renamed lenses more costly. It could be weather sealing (or not based on the previous post), or removing the image stabilization, just putting the Pentax name on the lens, or something else.

I'm sure Pentax branded glass that is made by Tamron is required to go through some extra quality control and possible made to a higher standard (tolerance) than the Tamron brand. Ricoh may have people at the Tamron plant doing the quality control checks as part of the contract.

Making a Tamron lens in K-mount is going to be a low volume production run. Especially a special lens like a 15-30mm F/2.8. It has to have Pentax HD coatings to keep the color profile consistent. For all lenses that are sold under the Tamron badge they use one type coating for all mounts. It doesn't take much to add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of something and that cost gets multiplied 2-3 times when it goes to retail.

[mee]

I'm sure Pentax branded glass that is made by Tamron is required to go through some extra quality control and possible made to a higher standard (tolerance) than the Tamron brand. Ricoh may have people at the Tamron plant doing the quality control checks as part of the contract.

Making a Tamron lens in K-mount is going to be a low volume production run. Especially a special lens like a 15-30mm F/2.8. It has to have Pentax HD coatings to keep the color profile consistent. For all lenses that are sold under the Tamron badge they use one type coating for all mounts. It doesn't take much to add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of something and that cost gets multiplied 2-3 times when it goes to retail.

Out of curiosity, how do you know this about the QC? I also wonder about the weather resistance in the Pentax branded Tamron over the generic Tamron too... that is, if there is a difference.

[Winder]

Out of curiosity, how do you know this about the QC? I also wonder about the weather resistance in the Pentax branded Tamron over the generic Tamron too... that is, if there is a difference.

Tamron also assembles lenses for Sony. Sony is the largest shareholder in Tamron. The Sony/Zeiss FE 55mm F/1.8 is a Tamron design and is made by Tamron for Sony to Zeiss specifications using Zeiss T* coatings.

Do I know for a fact that the Pentax version of the 15-30mm F/2.8 is made to a higher specification? No, but it would pretty common for that to be the case.

[THoog]

Whatever it is, they don't really differentiate costs among the different mounts.

They didn't so long as the volume of K-mount sales made it worthwhile (meanwhile, Canikon buyers were subsidizing our prices, heehee!). But if for every K-mount lens sold, they can sell ten Canon and nine Nikon versions (or more), eventually they have to decide if its worth the time and effort (=money) to design and make tooling and order parts that will only be used for, say, 1000 units instead of 10,000. Or shutting down the line to retool for 1000 units instead of another product that they can sell 10,000 of.

[Rondec]

All good points, but Pentax had years and years to work on lenses for the upcoming K1. Fuji is a small company too, but they came up with plenty of stellar lenses for their xpro's, Xt's etc in 2-3 years.

If I walked into a camera store tomorrow I could buy the tamron 15-30mm in Nikon/Canon mount for 922 euro or Pentax 15-30mm for 1600 (on sale, regularly it is 1700).

Who would be willing to pay ~74% more for a rebadged lens?

(I understand that prices vary in different markets).

Prices are very different in different places. Looking on Amazon just now, the Tamron 15-30 is selling for 1200 dollars in Nikon and Canon mounts, while the Pentax 15-30 is selling for 1450. That's a little more, but not the end of the world.

As to your question about lens design, Pentax's most recent lens designs were the DA 16-85, DFA 150-450, and DFA 70-200, all of which are excellent lenses that have reviewed quite well. And the DFA 70-200mm f2.8 came out at 1800 dollars, while the Nikon 70-200 VR II is selling at 2100 dollars (once again Amazon prices).

It is really hard to compare third party lens prices to the prices of a brand like Pentax. In general, Tamron, Tokina and Sigma will sell for less for the same price. But Pentax doesn't have a big enough market share for them to release many of their new products in the k mount.

I guess I would say more that there are certain countries where, due to crazy pricing on Pentax products, it doesn't make much sense to shoot Pentax. If the cost for Pentax gear is 70 percent more than for comparable Canon/Nikon gear, then you are better off shooting another brand.

[biz-engineer]

Others already do it. No need to re-invent the wheel.

You are straight to the point. Doing same products is basic marketing mistake since the only way left to differentiate is the price, which obviously is not sustainable.

[RonHendriks1966]

Personally I hope Pentax never invest in that kind of glass. Others already do it. No need to re-invent the wheel.

You are straight to the point. Doing same products is basic marketing mistake since the only way left to differentiate is the price, which obviously is not sustainable.

Well currently Pentax is doing the same thing as Canon and Nikon is offering. Same sensor as D800e, same lenses in zooms and probably offering the same new primes from 2017 and on going.



Oh Let me just drop aps-h for fun.

[normhead]

Well currently Pentax is doing the same thing as Canon and Nikon is offering. Same sensor as D800e, same lenses in zooms and probably offering the same new primes from 2017 and on going.



Oh Let me just drop aps-h for fun.

I'd totally forgotten about APS-H, You been falling down on the job lately Ron. Good to see you're struggling back to your feet.

As for Pentax doing the same as Canon and Nikon, I know all the FF advocates love it, but for me, it's just a disappoint. I couldn't afford a D810 and all I'd want to go with it, and I still can't afford a K-1 and all the lenses I'd want (15-30m 24-70, 70-200 and a few fast primes). I'm closer to the Pentax set up than to the Nikon setup, because it's cheaper, but it's still over in the next county. But essentially it's the same. Nikon and Canon have always had stuff I could never justify. Now Pentax has stuff I could never justify... and I'm supposed to be happy they are catching up? I don't think so.

[Winder]

Well currently Pentax is doing the same thing as Canon and Nikon is offering. Same sensor as D800e, same lenses in zooms and probably offering the same new primes from 2017 and on going.

Ricoh is doing exactly what they said they were going to do.

An Interview with Pentax Executive Vice President Jim Malcolm 2013
Question: So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?
Answer: No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh.

I have posted this quote several times over the years as the APS-C apologists kept arguing that Ricoh was not going to try to compete with Canon and Nikon directly.