[RonHendriks1966]

Ricoh is doing exactly what they said they were going to do.

An Interview with Pentax Executive Vice President Jim Malcolm 2013
Question: So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?
Answer: No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh.

I have posted this quote several times over the years as the APS-C apologists kept arguing that Ricoh was not going to try to compete with Canon and Nikon directly.

I think that currently Canon, Nikon and Sony are the dominant players in imaging. Pentax is currently playing a minor role. I dont think that sensorsize is that important as years ago.

[Winder]

I think that currently Canon, Nikon and Sony are the dominant players in imaging. Pentax is currently playing a minor role. I dont think that sensorsize is that important as years ago.

Canon, Nikon, Sony, & Fuji have all pulled ahead of Ricoh at this point, but the point is that Ricoh is going to copy the Canon/Nikon model with DSLRs and lenses. Sony and Fuji have both found way to appeal to a larger market. Ricoh is trying to be a better value than Canon, Nikon, Sony, or Fuji and once they get some lenses updated and on the market they will be a viable alternative.

[Rondec]

Ricoh is doing exactly what they said they were going to do.

An Interview with Pentax Executive Vice President Jim Malcolm 2013
Question: So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?
Answer: No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh.

I have posted this quote several times over the years as the APS-C apologists kept arguing that Ricoh was not going to try to compete with Canon and Nikon directly.

The question is (a) how much Pentax USA really knows about Ricoh's goals and (b) what the time frame is on this growth. Clearly the global markets have slowed down overall and over producing in that situation could be a recipe for disaster. My impression is that over production has actually hurt Nikon quite a bit, although maybe now they are getting used to the new normal.

[monochrome]

The question is (a) how much Pentax USA really knows about Ricoh's goals and (b) what the time frame is on this growth.

Whether RICOH Imaging Americas understands Ricoh's global business plan is less important than whether RIAC has a viable strategy to implement Ricoh's goals for the North American markets. Given recent executive turnover and the apparent dissolution of RIAC (Denver was apparently closed, most of the employees let go and the few remaining managers distributed to RICOH B2B locations, mostly in New Jersey) it seems apparent that Jim Malcolm didn't, or was not able to implement whatever strategy he had.

I'm not very optimistic about the prospect for a traditional distribution model in N.A.

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Last edited by monochrome; 09-17-2016 at 09:20 AM.

[Winder]

The question is (a) how much Pentax USA really knows about Ricoh's goals and (b) what the time frame is on this growth. Clearly the global markets have slowed down overall and over producing in that situation could be a recipe for disaster. My impression is that over production has actually hurt Nikon quite a bit, although maybe now they are getting used to the new normal.

You would think that Ricoh would express it goals to its distributors. Those goals maybe in broad terms, but I'm sure they have a global vision that they share with the people who are important to making that happen. The North American market is pretty important to all the manufacturers. Ricoh does seem to have a problem with communication, so do most of the manufacturers. Nikon is out of touch it seems. Sony is finally getting some direction. Canon is so big and arrogant that don't seem to care. Fuji seems to be the only one who really communicates and listens to users.

[monochrome]

The major issues in North America are Dealer Credit Facility and Dealer Minimum Purchase Agreement. Ricoh has a high minimum and doesn't offer financing. Pentax's terms are prohibitively expensive for all but the largest dealers. Furthermore there isn't a Co-Op ad buy program any more; little to no Distributor inventory to draw from and poor sales rep coverage to support dealer events (having outsourced virtually everything else, they naturally mostly use sales brokers). Current leadership considers all of those things "wasting money."

It's hard to imagine Pentax effectively competing with CaNikon when RIAC is essentially a contract for service administrator. Recent personnel changes prove the point.

[biz-engineer]

It's hard to imagine Pentax effectively competing with CaNikon when RIAC is essentially a contract for service administrator. Recent personnel changes prove the point.

What proves the point is customer behavior to begging with. Ricoh imaging released the Pentax K1; one of the best specified full frame camera out there; along with a full set of best in class full frame zooms. And I'd be curious to know how many DFA 70-200 were sold. The Pentax customer base ask a lot of what Canikon have but the reason it is still with Pentax is because it does not want to spend money. Before the K1 was released, there was a lot of perceived demand for the K1 , and after K1 was released a number of people lost interest (we don't read them participating in PF anymore, Mathieu Saville etc...). When you don't have a Pentax full frame you ask for it, when you have it you say there are no lenses, when you have the lenses you say it's too big too expensive you ask for primes, then you say AF is too slow and there are some white noise dots at iso6400, and when you'll have f1.4 primes you say it's too big too expensive you wanted f1.8 etc etc etc. If I was Ricoh, I'd have the feeling that customers are kidding me. I'd tell the customers that if they don't buy a K1; they'll have nothing else...

[Rondec]

What proves the point is customer behavior to begging with. Ricoh imaging released the Pentax K1; one of the best specified full frame camera out there; along with a full set of best in class full frame zooms. And I'd be curious to know how many DFA 70-200 were sold. The Pentax customer base ask a lot of what Canikon have but the reason it is still with Pentax is because it does not want to spend money. Before the K1 was released, there was a lot of perceived demand for the K1 , and after K1 was released a number of people lost interest (we don't read them participating in PF anymore, Mathieu Saville etc...). When you don't have a Pentax full frame you ask for it, when you have it you say there are no lenses, when you have the lenses you say it's too big too expensive you ask for primes, then you say AF is too slow and there are some white noise dots at iso6400, and when you'll have f1.4 primes you say it's too big too expensive you wanted f1.8 etc etc etc. If I was Ricoh, I'd have the feeling that customers are kidding me. I'd tell the customers that if they don't buy a K1; they'll have nothing else...

Pentaxians have been cheap for a long time, so that is nothing new. I felt when the K-1 was released that it was an amazing camera for the price, but folks immediately started asking if there was a chance of 24 megapixel "cheap" full frame soon. Same with the f2.8 zooms. People either gravitated toward Tamron or complained that there weren't any f4 zooms for cheaper.

I suppose there are people who want inexpensive gear with Nikon and Canon, but since they have more tiers when it comes camera bodies and lenses, then people end up with the gear they can afford and just understand that there is more expensive (but better) glass and camera bodies out there.

Overall, though, I think there has been growth. Maybe not on the Forums, but in Pentax's sales. They just need to continue to release good products to build off of it.

[Kunzite]

If Pentax continuous to rebadge Tamron lenses, it means they are no longer capable of creating high grade lens. All they do is rebadge and bump the price ridiculously. Tamron 15-30 costs ~950 euro if you shoot Nikon/Canon, but if you shoot Pentax it will cost you 1600-1700.

Except for 70-200 which lets presume is not a rebadged Tamron, when was the last time Pentax created a truly stellar lens?

P.S. sorry for negativity, just feeling little frustrated.

No, it should not be "except for 70-200" - because this lens is indeed stellar (and it even has a star in its name). This lens was announced in 2015, but market availability was postponed to April 2016 - so it's recent business. And while it's not the only recent example of a high grade lens, by itself proves beyond any doubt their ability of creating high grade lenses.
The D FA 150-450 is highly appreciated, too - despite not being a * lens.
The D FA 28-105 is quite good for its price.
And this is just the beginning.

Frustration should not degenerate into brand bashing.

---------- Post added 18-09-16 at 12:24 AM ----------

Canon, Nikon, Sony, & Fuji have all pulled ahead of Ricoh at this point, but the point is that Ricoh is going to copy the Canon/Nikon model with DSLRs and lenses. Sony and Fuji have both found way to appeal to a larger market. Ricoh is trying to be a better value than Canon, Nikon, Sony, or Fuji and once they get some lenses updated and on the market they will be a viable alternative.

Fuji? I have strong doubts about that (despite people repeating that they must be doing so much better than Ricoh Imaging! - but where's the proof to support such a claim?)
Canon and Nikon are undisputed leaders on the DSLR market. Sony appears to be fighting with Olympus for leadership of the MILC market. But Fujifilm?

And by the way, the DSLR market is larger than the MILC one, not the other way around

[adwb]

I though that once the full frame arrived the market for all our old film days lenses would increase but prices seem the same and availability is much the same as well.

Does this mean that these lenses particularly the auto focus and coupled apature versions have been found to be just not up to the newer sensor and body?

[D1N0]

I though that once the full frame arrived the market for all our old film days lenses would increase but prices seem the same and availability is much the same as well.

Does this mean that these lenses particularly the auto focus and coupled aperture versions have been found to be just not up to the newer sensor and body?

Prices for quality primes have gone up. Consumer zooms from the nineties are just not very good, with a few exceptions and there are not that many K-1's out there yet and those who bought them and one or two of the new zooms may already have legacy glass and have to recover from their big spending binge. Of course manual quality primes are also popular amongst canon and mirrorless shooters. Glass that was good on film is also good on digital. it is just that the majority of people didn't enlarge very many photo's in the film age beyond 4 by 6 inches, so they did not know how mediocre their kit zooms were. Modern zooms are much improved through use of computers to calculate designs and aspherical and ED elements and better coatings. Modern Primes less so except in the wide angle range (under 35mm).

[normhead]

There just aren't enough K-1 users out there and what there are are mostly K-5 or K-3 users who already had some good 36x24 glass/

[RonHendriks1966]

Just looked and you can still find a FA*85mm/f1.4 but less then two years ago. They are also like 10-20% more expensive. With 645 it also took 5 years before old lenses where almost nowhere to find.

[Mapleleaf-Mick]

I think that currently Canon, Nikon and Sony are the dominant players in imaging. Pentax is currently playing a minor role. I dont think that sensorsize is that important as years ago.

Ron, are your still using your Lilliput? Which camera?

[Apapukas]

No, it should not be "except for 70-200" - because this lens is indeed stellar (and it even has a star in its name). This lens was announced in 2015, but market availability was postponed to April 2016 - so it's recent business. And while it's not the only recent example of a high grade lens, by itself proves beyond any doubt their ability of creating high grade lenses.
The D FA 150-450 is highly appreciated, too - despite not being a * lens.
The D FA 28-105 is quite good for its price.
And this is just the beginning.

Frustration should not degenerate into brand bashing.

---------- Post added 18-09-16 at 12:24 AM ----------


Fuji? I have strong doubts about that (despite people repeating that they must be doing so much better than Ricoh Imaging! - but where's the proof to support such a claim?)
Canon and Nikon are undisputed leaders on the DSLR market. Sony appears to be fighting with Olympus for leadership of the MILC market. But Fujifilm?

And by the way, the DSLR market is larger than the MILC one, not the other way around

I wasn't brand bashing and if it sounded like that - my mistake. 70-200 is a stellar lens, I agree, it is on par with top offerings from other companies. Not so much for other lenses you mentioned. They are good, but they are not lenses Pentax is or will be known for (like DA, FA limited's).

Regarding Fuji, they are selling crazy amounts of cameras. Back when x100 was introduced to the market, BH would receive 200 units and it would disappear in 5minutes. And since then Fuji became a total different beast. XT-2 is pretty much a perfect camera and it will be a game changer for Fuji. Olympus doesn't even come close to Fuji.