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01-29-2017, 06:41 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Nikon has simply the best phase AF system
[...]
Ricoh - archaistic phase and contrast AF - nothing new at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Sony, Fuji and Olympus - Hybrid AF system - rather advanced already
[...]
Hybrid AF in K-70 is used only for video with several lenses and no any serious explanation of this system in marketing information.
[...]
Ricoh - archaistic phase and contrast AF - nothing new at all.
You're contradicting yourself in your own post. How can Dual Pixel or Hybrid AF technologies help with focusing on classical SLR camera?

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's not about your or my own experience. My K-5IIs can reach 50% missing focus shots in lower light (depends on lenses).
So your AF grudges are based on pre-Ricoh era technologies, back from 2000's? Maybe you should extensively use K-1 or KP first, before making broad statements?

01-29-2017, 06:45 AM - 3 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You always drown discussion with attacks to opponent. Looks silly. If you are Pentax fanatic, it's not my problem.
We're telling you we think you're misguided and wrong. And that's OUR right. Your right to speak does not imply OUR obligation to agree with you.

If you are that dissatisfied with Pentax, save up some money then sell all your gear and move to Nikon. Nobody's forcing you to stay here. But so long as you continue to express almost nothing but negativity, people will not want to listen to you. And guess what? It's our right NOT to listen to something (or someone) we find unpleasant.
01-29-2017, 06:59 AM   #33
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I would like to see feedback from those who get the new KP and the 55-300 PLM. I am using the 55-300 PLM on my K-3 and am very impressed with the autofocus performance and speed on stills. I do not use my K-5 and K-3 for video, I have a camcorder for that. I have handled some Canon & Nikon midrange DSLR's such as the 80D and 7200 with their versions of 55-300 zooms and I cannot see where they are any faster than the PLM. Actually the PLM seems faster.
01-29-2017, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You always drown discussion with attacks to opponent. Looks silly. If you are Pentax fanatic, it's not my problem.

If you have any good info in the context of the discussion, please, tell us.
While the post you were quoting is generic (and actually I wrote it because the explainxckd image I first wanted to use was too harsh and could be seen as a personal attack), you're doing a good job at actually insulting people. "Pentax fanatic", "be adult, not a kid" - stuff like that.

The context of this discussion is a continuation of the complaints regarding KP's one-screw-grip. There are two options for you, both were presented:
a. jump ship, perhaps to the Nikon with it's "best" AF
b. get more up to date with Pentax (if their current level is enough for your needs).
"Punishing" Pentax because they don't retrofit a D500-level AF into your K-5 and fast AF into your screw drive lenses isn't an option.

01-29-2017, 07:01 AM - 2 Likes   #35
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In the new age of "alternative facts" we seem to be entering, or have already entered, where respect and the regard for facts seems to the in the retreat on so many fronts, I happen to value both the freedom of speech and the respect for people, institutions, and facts highly.

Is it really necessary to routinely single out certain forum members and use slurs like boriscleto v. (even if only in jest) for them when this forum prides itself to be the "Friendly Pentax Camera Forum" (which normally it is)? Why is that user constantly picked upon when it is obvious, and only natural, I guess, that many of us have our foibles and idiosyncrasies, including those diseminating such terms?

Just something I couldn't help noticing, and I don't think it is anything to do with political correctness. It's about respect.
01-29-2017, 07:01 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jddwoods Quote
I would like to see feedback from those who get the new KP and the 55-300 PLM. I am using the 55-300 PLM on my K-3 and am very impressed with the autofocus performance and speed on stills. I do not use my K-5 and K-3 for video, I have a camcorder for that. I have handled some Canon & Nikon midrange DSLR's such as the 80D and 7200 with their versions of 55-300 zooms and I cannot see where they are any faster than the PLM. Actually the PLM seems faster.
That would be interesting, indeed.
I only briefly tested the 55-300 RE, and I was very impressed. If they can correct the occasional SAFOX' hesitations, they have a winner.
01-29-2017, 07:04 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And "Nikon has simply the best phase AF system" is new technology?
Sour grapes. In real life, I noticed significant AF improvements, from the K-5IIs to the K-1 - and with my new lenses. And I will continue to notice significant AF improvements, because I can afford it. I don't have to pretend it doesn't happen.
This is my experience, too. I've experienced huge improvements in AF going from the K10D, to the K-5 and then to the K-1. And the discussions here show that others have seen AF improvements in every other evolution of Pentax cameras.

The reality is the AF on the K-1 is extremely good. Could it be better? Of course there's always room for improvement. And it sounds like Ricoh is continually improving the AF.

Finally, it must be said that some of the "Pentax AF sucks" nonsense lies on the shoulders of novice users who don't know how to use their cameras to maximize AF keeper rates.

Most of the "Pentax AF sucks" nonsense is just another typical internet pissing contest in which insecure fanboys have to justify the superiority of their toys.
01-29-2017, 07:12 AM   #38
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One limitation not really discussed here is the lenses. The AF in the camera can't make the in-lens motors to go faster than the motors are designed for. The new pulse motor (PLM) seems to be the fastest, with DC 2nd and SDM being the slowest. AF without in-lens motors is dependant on the AF motor in the body and this has been strong and fast on the models higher up the line.

KP has the same AF hardware as the K-3 II but new software, new algorithms. While I don't expect miracles, there should be some subtle differencies and probably works even better with PLM-lenses. To adress the needs of sports and action photographers, Pentax needs to release new lenses with PLM motors - they probably would do fine with telephoto PLM's. But I'm not convinced that Pentax should make action or sports cameras, it's simply not in their heritage really. When Canon made the sports photographers dream the EOS 1, Pentax made the nature photographers dream with the 645 medium format. Roughly the same money...

Ok, so I have a K-S2 with this "antique" SAFOX and without 1 million AF points but it works well for me. My fastest AF lens is the FA 135 f/2.8. But we all have different needs of course.

01-29-2017, 07:17 AM   #39
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Everyone is being a bit harsh on the OP I think. We are deluding ourselves if we think our AF system is even at the races (center point excepted ) Saying all that, there is a dependency on AF algorithms and lens motors, you'll never be able to get a DA*50-135 to be a tracking monster purely down to SDM. Also I concur with Kunzite in that AF is being improved with each generation but they still have a lot to make up.
01-29-2017, 07:23 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jddwoods Quote
I would like to see feedback from those who get the new KP and the 55-300 PLM. .
But we don't even know if new lenses will have PLM motors. And why only slow 55-300 has such motor.

---------- Post added 01-29-2017 at 07:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
This is my experience, too. I've experienced huge improvements in AF going from the K10D, to the K-5 and then to the K-1..
Huge?

I had K-5 and I can say that K-5 was the worst camera in terms of AF. Looks like my ist* DS.
Even K200D is better. A bit slower, but much accurate.

K-5IIs is better, but no any huge improvements at all. My friend has K-3, I've tried it and found it better than K-5IIs.
BUT....Still need to adjust lenses.
I can't put any Pentax lens and shoot without any problem. Back or front-focus are reality.

No way to adjust zoom lenses like Olympus had for many years.

---------- Post added 01-29-2017 at 07:33 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
One limitation not really discussed here is the lenses.
Ok, so I have a K-S2 with this "antique" SAFOX and without 1 million AF points but it works well for me. My fastest AF lens is the FA 135 f/2.8. But we all have different needs of course.
I say not about SPEED or ACCURACY, but about new technologies in AF system of Ricoh.
I don't say about user's satisfaction of Pentax AF. I say about real progress.
Visible and serious.
01-29-2017, 07:35 AM   #41
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It's really hard to compare with the Pentax with the other Camera companies (established and money to burn R&D). But I think they are working to be a better one w/o burning too much money. Pentax was waaaay behind the Digital age but now Ricoh is in the driver seat it we can see some advancement change in company portfolio. We now have a camera in the middle of K-70 and the replacement of K-3II. Now we have a total of 5 Pentax SLR Category to choose from. We really need to check the KP if the AF ha improved then for sure we know Ricoh is doing something. But until then we wait for what is coming and it is just the 1st month of 2017.
01-29-2017, 07:36 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
nobody wants to happen to them what happened to Minolta for stealing from Honeywell.
Though I have no proof, I've always believed that Pentax's association with Honeywell was very bad for Pentax AF development, with Honeywell holding the patents on PDAF (though not developing it) - Pentax were the last of the big players to introduce AF - even though they were still a big player - and they still got sued. I think, though they wer always cautious, they might have gone in sooner, and therefore been further up in the race. if not for their marketing arrangements with Honeywell.
01-29-2017, 08:12 AM   #43
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Ogl is doing it again. hahaha... !
I think we know already that the last real progress on the AF system from K-5II to the K-3, and then K-3 to K-1 with 33 points.
Pentax KP has the same AF system with K-3, but improved algoritm. IMO, pentax has been making progress, but not that very fast. Perhaps they are going to use new AF for K-3 II replacement.
Imagine if Pentax KP has 65 AF points, for the midrange, and K-1 as the flagship has only 33 AF point ? It is going to ruin the sale of K-1.
Pentax is not the company that make the sale by the hype such as Fuji, by releasing quite number of products at the same time. Ricoh Imaging is different. They give opportunity for the productt o be in the market once after another. Right now it is time for Pentax KP, and you already show your dissastisfaction when you haven't try it yourself.

What you need to do is being patient for another 6 months. Well, even if Pentax K-3II replacement coming with new AF system, I don't know whether you will buy it or not. Maybe you will still compare it with D500, and then you will say this is not what you want. Your dream camera with dream AF system maybe is not coming from Pentax.

Last edited by afan137; 01-29-2017 at 08:35 AM.
01-29-2017, 08:31 AM   #44
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I think a lot of it has to do with cost. PDAF is ancient technology. More AF points require more processing power and both add to cost. There does seem to be some latency in the system even on the K-1, but it is a good bit faster than the K-3. Ricoh filed a patent for new AF tech a couple of years ago, but nothing has ever made it into production.
01-29-2017, 08:40 AM - 2 Likes   #45
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Typical Ogl-topic, really. Before any announcement of a new Pentax model: enthusiastic, positive... After the official announcement: always disappointed and down. It's what makes this forum so fantastic!
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