Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!

liukaitc · 08-28-2017, 08:31 PM

Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract.
This is what the contract says
"This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose."
"All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the
photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership."

If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right?
So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input.

SpecialK · 08-28-2017, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by liukaitc

So how to change the agreement.

You likely won't. I'm pretty sure you could have a print in your portfolio (they can't check that) but I doubt you will be able to put it on the web.

liukaitc · 08-28-2017, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

You likely won't. I'm pretty sure you could have a print in your portfolio (they can't check that) but I doubt you will be able to put it on the web.

Ok same as I thought. I would not sign this contract for sure. Not a lot of money anyway. I am sure I will regret not be able to show my work in public.

So how to change the agreement? What should I alter to the agreement that grant me the right to use the photos for my own promotion purpose?

**aslyfox** · 08-28-2017, 09:01 PM

please seek the advice of competent legal counsel in your area

MarkJerling · 08-28-2017, 09:04 PM

Simply put a line through the part of the contract you're not happy with, sign next to that and leave it it up to them.

biz-engineer · 08-28-2017, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by liukaitc

The evil work of contract? Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract. This is what the contract says "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right? So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input

Sounds like a normal service contract and serious proposal from them. It is especially understandable, putting content online is not desirable because then there is absolutely no control of where it goes, who's using it and for what purpose. On the other hand, you are entitled to negotiate a fair price, a price that is at least worth the time, travel, and with some of your equipment costs included, and most importantly make sure they are happy with the results. Anyway, if you're asking such questions, that means you need to go through the experience and experience has a value itself. I'm sure you'll have some take away from the experience that you could use for the next time.

---------- Post added 29-08-17 at 07:27 ----------

Originally posted by liukaitc

I am sure I will regret not be able to show my work in public.

Photography is not a once in a life time event. Some customers will be glad to have their photos used to show case your works , most won't.

Ian Stuart Forsyth · 08-28-2017, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by liukaitc

Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract.
This is what the contract says
"This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose."
"All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the
photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership."

If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right?
So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input.

What I have seen people do in the past that what to use these kind of shots for their own promotional work is while taking the photographs place your business or anything with your logo into the shot at the time of capture. Because the image is of no use to the client and is something that you would not release to the client and the client will not accepted for their usage you still retain the copyright to that image.

Dericali · 08-29-2017, 05:59 AM

You can also ask them if they mind you sharing the photographs on your own social media/blog/portfolio/website. Since they are likely to be used for promotional activity, businesses often don't mind if you do this, since the purpose of them is to promote their product, and your network is another way to do so.

Kozlok · 08-29-2017, 06:12 AM - **1 Like**

Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area.

**aslyfox** · 08-29-2017, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Kozlok

Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area.

Usually better than the best intentioned advice on the Internet

MikeW · 08-29-2017, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Kozlok

Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area.

I agree. Whatever the attorney charges now will be cheaper than what you will incur if litigation occurs.

Wheatfield · 08-29-2017, 06:54 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by liukaitc

Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract.
This is what the contract says
"This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose."
"All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the
photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership."

If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right?
So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input.

You need a lawyer, not an Internet forum.

Vasyl · 08-29-2017, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by liukaitc

"This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose."
"All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the
photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership."

Just negotiate with them to simply add one more line to the contract.

The photographer has the right to use the photos for his/her own promotion purpose, like posting on social media, website, blog, etc.

Good luck!

Robin CB · 08-29-2017, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Vasyl

Just negotiate with them to simply add one more line to the contract.

The photographer has the right to use the photos for his/her own promotion purpose, like posting on social media, website, blog, etc.

Good luck!

Try changing "Like posting on" to "including, but not limited to," and you might get somewhere.

From a customer point of view though - if I purchase the photos of my product outright, I would want control over how & where those pictures appear, so don't be surprised if they say no.

**Rondec** · 08-29-2017, 12:32 PM

I agree. Get a lawyer to look it over and tell him/her what you want to change and get the verbiage written out in legal-speak. It would be reasonable as well to touch base with the client and ask if they would be OK with you posting a few low res photos on line as part of your portfolio. They may be more amenable to that if you offer to direct traffic their direction (free advertising).

08-28-2017, 08:31 PM	#1
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008	The evil work of contract? Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract. This is what the contract says "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right? So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
People "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"	Kerrowdown	Post Your Photos!	31	11-03-2014 12:08 PM
Photography Contract and Model Release Form Assistance	Heie	Photographic Industry and Professionals	4	10-06-2014 09:07 PM
People Hear no Evil, See no Evil, Speak no Evil	Snipes	Post Your Photos!	7	09-08-2013 06:23 AM
Sarah Palin's Speaking Contract Revealed...	creampuff	General Talk	82	04-24-2010 10:35 AM
Since when did the 18-55mm CONTRACT!?	jct us101	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	9	08-08-2009 11:23 AM

08-28-2017, 08:37 PM	#2
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,482	Originally posted by liukaitc So how to change the agreement. You likely won't. I'm pretty sure you could have a print in your portfolio (they can't check that) but I doubt you will be able to put it on the web.

08-28-2017, 08:41 PM	#3
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008 Original Poster	Originally posted by SpecialK You likely won't. I'm pretty sure you could have a print in your portfolio (they can't check that) but I doubt you will be able to put it on the web. Ok same as I thought. I would not sign this contract for sure. Not a lot of money anyway. I am sure I will regret not be able to show my work in public. So how to change the agreement? What should I alter to the agreement that grant me the right to use the photos for my own promotion purpose?

08-28-2017, 09:01 PM	#4
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,583	please seek the advice of competent legal counsel in your area

08-28-2017, 09:04 PM	#5
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,423	Simply put a line through the part of the contract you're not happy with, sign next to that and leave it it up to them.

08-28-2017, 10:21 PM	#6
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,249	Originally posted by liukaitc The evil work of contract? Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract. This is what the contract says "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right? So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input Sounds like a normal service contract and serious proposal from them. It is especially understandable, putting content online is not desirable because then there is absolutely no control of where it goes, who's using it and for what purpose. On the other hand, you are entitled to negotiate a fair price, a price that is at least worth the time, travel, and with some of your equipment costs included, and most importantly make sure they are happy with the results. Anyway, if you're asking such questions, that means you need to go through the experience and experience has a value itself. I'm sure you'll have some take away from the experience that you could use for the next time. ---------- Post added 29-08-17 at 07:27 ---------- Originally posted by liukaitc I am sure I will regret not be able to show my work in public. Photography is not a once in a life time event. Some customers will be glad to have their photos used to show case your works , most won't.

08-28-2017, 11:13 PM	#7
Ian Stuart Forsyth Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,531	Originally posted by liukaitc Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract. This is what the contract says "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right? So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input. What I have seen people do in the past that what to use these kind of shots for their own promotional work is while taking the photographs place your business or anything with your logo into the shot at the time of capture. Because the image is of no use to the client and is something that you would not release to the client and the client will not accepted for their usage you still retain the copyright to that image.

08-29-2017, 05:59 AM	#8
Dericali Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Berlin Posts: 298	You can also ask them if they mind you sharing the photographs on your own social media/blog/portfolio/website. Since they are likely to be used for promotional activity, businesses often don't mind if you do this, since the purpose of them is to promote their product, and your network is another way to do so.

08-29-2017, 06:12 AM - 1 Like	#9
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area.

08-29-2017, 06:32 AM	#10
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,583	Originally posted by Kozlok Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area. Usually better than the best intentioned advice on the Internet

08-29-2017, 06:34 AM	#11
MikeW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 437	Originally posted by Kozlok Or you could get advice from competent legal counsel in your area. I agree. Whatever the attorney charges now will be cheaper than what you will incur if litigation occurs.

08-29-2017, 06:54 AM - 1 Like	#12
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,991	Originally posted by liukaitc Hello guys I need some help. I am relative new to agreement. I am about to do a food photography for a food company. They just send me a contract. But in the agreement there is something I heard people refer as The evil work for hire contract. This is what the contract says "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." If I understand it correctly. I can not post any of the photo publicly for my own promotion. Right? So how to change the agreement. how to alter the sentence. I am ok that the client have unlimited usage. They can use the photo for whatever purpose for lifelong time. I am fine. I also would not sell those photos to any other third parties. All I want is the right to use the photo for my own promotion purpose. Like post on social media, website, blog, etc. Thanks for any input. You need a lawyer, not an Internet forum.

08-29-2017, 07:07 AM	#13
Vasyl Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 648	Originally posted by liukaitc "This Finished Product will become the exclusive property of the Client upon acceptance of delivery. Upon acceptance of the photos by xxxxx, Photographer transfers any and all ownership rights exclusively to xxxxx and Photographer shall have no rights whatsoever upon such purpose." "All photos are considered a “full buy-out” meaning the photographer transfers all rights to xxxxx and has no claim to their ownership." Just negotiate with them to simply add one more line to the contract. The photographer has the right to use the photos for his/her own promotion purpose, like posting on social media, website, blog, etc. Good luck!

08-29-2017, 09:10 AM	#14
Robin CB Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Sussex Posts: 92	Originally posted by Vasyl Just negotiate with them to simply add one more line to the contract. The photographer has the right to use the photos for his/her own promotion purpose, like posting on social media, website, blog, etc. Good luck! Try changing "Like posting on" to "including, but not limited to," and you might get somewhere. From a customer point of view though - if I purchase the photos of my product outright, I would want control over how & where those pictures appear, so don't be surprised if they say no.

08-29-2017, 12:32 PM	#15
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	I agree. Get a lawyer to look it over and tell him/her what you want to change and get the verbiage written out in legal-speak. It would be reasonable as well to touch base with the client and ask if they would be OK with you posting a few low res photos on line as part of your portfolio. They may be more amenable to that if you offer to direct traffic their direction (free advertising).