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11-01-2017, 01:19 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Or they will just move the lens production to a different factory. I believe only cheap kit lenses were made there. Nikon's main production facilities are in Thailand and Laos.
This is definitely not the case. Generally speaking, Nikon kit lenses are Thai. The mid range (50 1.4, 1.8 primes, semi-pro zooms) were Chinese. Flagship trinity zooms and f1.4 primes are mostly still made in Japan, along with the old screw-drive designs that are still in production. So there's a really big chunk of their glass range that will have to be relocated.

For the sake of our Nikon-shooting brethren, let's hope it's a smooth transition.

11-01-2017, 02:05 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by zjacreman Quote
This is definitely not the case. Generally speaking, Nikon kit lenses are Thai. The mid range (50 1.4, 1.8 primes, semi-pro zooms) were Chinese. Flagship trinity zooms and f1.4 primes are mostly still made in Japan, along with the old screw-drive designs that are still in production. So there's a really big chunk of their glass range that will have to be relocated.

For the sake of our Nikon-shooting brethren, let's hope it's a smooth transition.
What Nikon still makes screw drive lenses? I've never once heard anyone admit another camera company, other than Pentax does that. In fact Pentax is described as somehow inadequate for doing so.
11-01-2017, 02:28 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
...But, at a glance, this is bad for Nikon. It means they've either created too much capacity or are losing market share so fast they need to cut staff and close manufacturing facilities. Clearly, that means less product to sell, and less possibility for growth...
Agreed it's bad for Nikon, but it might also be a worse sign for other camera companies. Maybe the entire industry is shrinking and Nikon is ahead of the curve by proactively shrinking capacity? I don't think anyone here knows and can talk about the full details.
11-01-2017, 02:40 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What Nikon still makes screw drive lenses? I've never once heard anyone admit another camera company, other than Pentax does that. In fact Pentax is described as somehow inadequate for doing so.
There are at least as many new, in-production Nikon AF-D screw-drive lenses available on Adorama as there are Pentax-brand FF lenses of any focus type.

11-01-2017, 03:46 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think very few people buy premium cameras. It's an act of desperation by a mass manufacturer that had a high volume, low margin model of production to become Leica.
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a premium camera.
11-01-2017, 04:03 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a premium camera.
Yes, that's true.

I think Sony, Canon and Nikon were ill-equipped to deal with the soccer moms realizing this after 2011. They had big production, lots of discounting, lots of trying to top each other, lots of advertising.

But the returns aren't there, and company boards throughout the industry have to deal with it.
11-01-2017, 04:04 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Well, except those in the car industry, it seems like most large old Japanese companies (consumer products) are having problem adapt to today world market. It is not only Nikon. I can see their old working culture is one part of the problem but they will survive... hopefully they will.

Last edited by pakinjapan; 11-01-2017 at 04:54 PM.
11-01-2017, 04:47 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, that's true.

I think Sony, Canon and Nikon were ill-equipped to deal with the soccer moms realizing this after 2011. They had big production, lots of discounting, lots of trying to top each other, lots of advertising.

But the returns aren't there, and company boards throughout the industry have to deal with it.
As has been pointed out numerous times, Canon and Sony have their more profitable other lines generating returns that may be used to prop up the smaller camera lines, whereas Nikon doesn't. I really don't know if they do or not, and I doubt you'd be able to tell from their published accounts, if they've a mind to disguise the practice from their investors and comptetitors (and maybe themselves), but there are limits to everything, as Ricoh has discovered.

On the other hand, maybe it's just that Nikon blinked first.

11-01-2017, 04:55 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
As has been pointed out numerous times, Canon and Sony have their more profitable other lines generating returns that may be used to prop up the smaller camera lines, whereas Nikon doesn't. I really don't know if they do or not, and I doubt you'd be able to tell from their published accounts, if they've a mind to disguise the practice from their investors and comptetitors (and maybe themselves), but there are limits to everything, as Ricoh has discovered.

On the other hand, maybe it's just that Nikon blinked first.
Yeah, although Sony has spun off Cameras. A few years ago its board downgraded its prospects for growth and it's now separated from the fortunes of the sensor division.

Canon, like Ricoh, do have photocopiers/printers at the core of their money making. Ricoh's has suffered lately and the new CEO has ordered the various divisions to break even rather than spend to acquire marketshare from rivals.
11-01-2017, 04:58 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a premium camera.
My opinion:
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a crank handle gramophone.

Working with young people including engineers, Taipei, Osaka, Wuxi, Shanghai, Australia and various places in USA , with Pentax K-S1
I saw that they can switch the camera on,
but are knackered from there on ... Why all the numbers... Where is the picture...?

Meanwhile the young ladies with their own hand held devices are skillfully editing what they want in a few seconds.
11-01-2017, 05:35 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
My opinion:
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a crank handle gramophone.

Working with young people including engineers, Taipei, Osaka, Wuxi, Shanghai, Australia and various places in USA , with Pentax K-S1
I saw that they can switch the camera on,
but are knackered from there on ... Why all the numbers... Where is the picture...?

Meanwhile the young ladies with their own hand held devices are skillfully editing what they want in a few seconds.
Well... I think a dedicated camera is a specialized device requiring specialized knowledge. While not designed to be difficult to use, I think it should be expected there is some level of knowledge involved in operation.

Put a kid in front of a VCR and they won't have a clue either.. they've never been in contact with such technology.

Smartphone is designed to just work. aim and capture. Automatically beyond those steps. And that is fine for them. But that market isn't largely the same as the ones going for a dedicated camera with manual controls. Two different markets.. or sub markets..

So I'm not surprised of the experiences you had with people and the K-S1. Even knowing it was a DSLR designed to be beginner-friendly.
11-01-2017, 08:32 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
My opinion:
For most people, anything with interchangeable lenses is a crank handle gramophone.
All you are saying is that you know a lot of people who are showing a high level of ignorance regarding the technology.
The fault is with the people, not the cameras.
QuoteQuote:

Working with young people including engineers, Taipei, Osaka, Wuxi, Shanghai, Australia and various places in USA , with Pentax K-S1
I saw that they can switch the camera on,
but are knackered from there on ... Why all the numbers... Where is the picture...?

Meanwhile the young ladies with their own hand held devices are skillfully editing what they want in a few seconds.
Ignorance of one technology, and a high degree of comfort with another. I can pilot a hot air balloon, but put me in a jet fighter plane and I would be lost
Does that make the jet a crank handle gramaphone? Using your logic, the balloon is more advanced.
11-02-2017, 12:15 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Ignorance of one technology, and a high degree of comfort with another. I can pilot a hot air balloon, but put me in a jet fighter plane and I would be lost
Does that make the jet a crank handle gramaphone? Using your logic, the balloon is more advanced.
We are talking about the mass market of "a nice relaxed overland flight with the family/children". The word "advanced" all by itself would be a no-no for advertising. And the jet fighter plane is a complete fail there. It is by all accounts sub-par in its market appeal.
This is purely ignorance on the side of the manufacturer of the jet fighter plane, not on side of the market, if he ignores the market requirements.

Nobody in the biology market cared if the Dodo was "more advanced" than a cockroach.
11-02-2017, 12:31 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
All you are saying is that you know a lot of people who are showing a high level of ignorance regarding the technology.
The fault is with the people, not the cameras.
Which is the starting point for Nikon's explanation of why their compact lines have failed, of course, effectively "It's not our products that are inadequate: it's your limited understanding of their benefits". While that may be true in a broad sense, in a business context, if fault is to be found, it's either with their range of cameras, or their marketing.
11-02-2017, 12:40 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Which is the starting point for Nikon's explanation of why their compact lines have failed, of course, effectively "It's not our products that are inadequate: it's your limited understanding of their benefits". While that may be true in a broad sense, in a business context, if fault is to be found, it's either with their range of cameras, or their marketing.
I don't know if you can blame marketing; I mean, you could throw 10,000 marketers at the horse & buggy and you couldn't get it to replace 2% of the cars on the road. The fact that the camera comes with your phone is a pretty big disincentive to buy a separate one for a lot of people.
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