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02-20-2018, 03:14 PM - 2 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote

What I'd like to know, how many current K3ii and KP users would give up the IQ, in-body stabilization and etc. and pay $2000 for a body with "action" auto focus?

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02-20-2018, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
That's right. They always have. While Nikon and Canon were targeting the photo journalists whose images was mainly printed in low res in newspapers, Pentax were concentrating on image quality; and particularly on lenses, and high res imaging with medium format.
Pentax has never been about machine gunning images. They were even late providing motor drive....
Good points. Awhile ago I was looking at pictures taken by newspaper photographer pros . The pictures were taken of NHL hockey action for city newspapers back in the late '80's. The pro camera equipment at that time was 35mm film Nikon, Nikon/Nikkor lenses. The resolution was not impressive, but the action stopping was impressive. I know a hockey arena is not the best place for photography, but boy was I not impressed with the quality...composition fine, but resolution.

Back in the 1980's I had a new Leica rangefinder and Leitz (35mm), wide angle, 50mm and 90mm for a long weekend. I shot everything and anything. Many rolls of film...64, 100, 200, 400 ASA. I tried an experiment...my Pentax ES ll body, my 50mm F 1.8 Takumar and 135mm F 3.5 Tak, vs the Leica and Leitz 50 and 90mm lenses. Same subject, same film, same ISO, same F stop, same shutter speed and I checked out the quality of both Leica and Pentax photographs. I had difficulty telling which was taken by which camera/lens. I had a buddy and my wife take a look...without telling them which photo was taken with which camera equipment. They couldn't tell either.

In the digital age I've seen photographs at the 8 X 10 level, taken with Canon 5D2, 7D and my K10D and K-5....at 100-400 ISO. All with Canon and /or Pentax lenses. IMHO, my Pentax gear more than holds it's own.

Freezing fast action is not my priority...excellent resolution, sharpness have always been my priority.

As far as fast action, I generally use my Sigma 150-500 and K-5 body.

I invariably take pics of wild birds (BIF) and wild animals during daylight hours. I set my ISO at 800-1600, shutter speed over 1/1000th or more, F stop at F 9 to F 10...for added DOF...to add to sharpness of fast moving birds. I focus on the eye of the subject, lead forward the subject, with my lens (old hunting trick I learned from my father) , anticipating where the bird/animal is going and the pics for the most part are in focus....and hit the shutter button. I do set on AF continuous, use spot focus .

I also take pics of fast moving drag race cars using this methodology, except I focus on the front wheel rather than the eye...as long as the race car is not doing a wheelie.

Even though I do read about the lack of fast AF of Pentax stuff....I dunno...it seems ok for my purposes.
02-20-2018, 06:49 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Back in the 1980's I had a new Leica rangefinder and Leitz (35mm), wide angle, 50mm and 90mm for a long weekend. I shot everything and anything. Many rolls of film...64, 100, 200, 400 ASA. I tried an experiment...my Pentax ES ll body, my 50mm F 1.8 Takumar and 135mm F 3.5 Tak, vs the Leica and Leitz 50 and 90mm lenses. Same subject, same film, same ISO, same F stop, same shutter speed and I checked out the quality of both Leica and Pentax photographs. I had difficulty telling which was taken by which camera/lens. I had a buddy and my wife take a look...without telling them which photo was taken with which camera equipment. They couldn't tell either.
See my blog posting at Leica vs Pentax |.

I'm just as happy with my current Pentax gear as I was back then. It does everything I want it to do, although I will admit that better auto-focusing in dim light would be helpful (I'm thinking of flamenco photography in dim nightclubs, but even there I can get good results).
02-20-2018, 07:14 PM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
And so I thought to myself “well they must be busy doing some R & D to bring them up to speed in AF, touch-screens, AF joystick, and other goodies”. Keep pace with the D500 and D850...
Pentax will do this when Nikon gets up to speed, with Shaker Reduction, Pixel Shift, Astrotracer, full support for legacy glass etc.

I'm shooting witht 20 year old lenses and Shake Reduction. Only 100 Tamron 300 2.8s were released in Pentax mount. Many more were sold in Canon and Nikon Mounts, When will Nikon and Canon catch up and provide SR for older but really good lenses. Or will they just continue to milk the market with really expensive new glass? Will Nikon and Canon R&D come up with new bodies that daress these issues. Or will their owners continue to have to upgrade to VR glass to have stabilized images?

QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
I just speak the truth as I see it. I’m sorry if the truth offends some folk.
Ya, too bad you don't have the humility to try and understand the truth as other's see it. You are one guy, and no one appointed you some kind of guardian of the truth.

It isn't the truth that offends people, it's you and that post is about as offensive as it gets.

Do you honestly believe what you speak is "the truth". Man, talk to your therapist about this.

02-20-2018, 07:19 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
I'm thinking of flamenco photography in dim nightclubs, but even there I can get good results
If you are still using the K-5II in your signature I think you would be shocked at the improvement made with the K-3II. When I was shooting with the k-5 and later k-5II I routinely took two or three shots re-focusing between shots to make sure I got a good one. With the k-3II I don't even bother, it is a waste of time culling out the extra in focus shots.
02-20-2018, 07:23 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Poit,
It appears you have not yet discovered the "back button focus" technique.
It has only been briefly mentioned in one reply. (if my speed reading is not tricking me.)
Once you master it there is no looking back.

As a travel photographer you think I would not need it but the benefits are many and varied. I have used the back button for so long without it I am lost. If I happen to use a different camera I keep pressing the spot with my thumb where usually the Pentax button is.

This link explains it well, I thought:
Back Button Focus is Amazing: Learn What, Why, and How
Thanks. I only use back button AF. Ever.

But it is kind of you to give some advice 😀

---------- Post added 02-21-18 at 01:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
OK...so you are not planning on buying the features you strongly suggest are needed? Translation: No ROI for pursuing feature parity not supported by market research.
I expect that is why we are not seeing certain features despite almost a decade of their presence.
Kenspo himself (who seems to be accepted here as the oracle, along with Asahiman) recently stated that Pentax were seeking to appeal more to the professional market.

Now if you are a loyal follower of kenspo, what do you think that might entail?

More lenses? Of course.
Anything else?
02-20-2018, 07:43 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Pentax were seeking to appeal more to the professional market.
Now if you are a loyal follower of kenspo, what do you think that might entail?
Fast glass that can produce exceptional out of focus areas. No ƒ4 or variable Aperture offerings. Heavy lenses with great correction, but not the most portable.

OF course no one needs kenspo to figure this out. Look at what they've produced and what's been announced. It's pretty clear what they meant.

02-20-2018, 07:46 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Thanks. I only use back button AF. Ever.

But it is kind of you to give some advice 😀

---------- Post added 02-21-18 at 01:30 PM ----------



Kenspo himself (who seems to be accepted here as the oracle, along with Asahiman) recently stated that Pentax were seeking to appeal more to the professional market.

Now if you are a loyal follower of kenspo, what do you think that might entail?

More lenses? Of course.
Anything else?
Clearly you haven’t been around for a while, as you stated in #1. asahiman doesn’t post here any more. His posts at the other site have not been nearly as correct and insightful as in the past. kenspo has been consistently positive and seems to know what is coming - and is excited about it.

I think the pace at which Pentax can develop and release product is not aligned with the pace at which many want new toys (you might suffer from that Dissonance). They’re just too small to move faster. Pentax is what it is.

Trying to impress a Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji business and product model on Pentax is a fool’s errand. That is a recipe for constant disappointment, unhappiness and complaints.

Pentax will release a K-1 Super this week; an APSc flagship (major rework and new technology) sometime within this year and a 645y within a few months after that. They’ll also release roadmapped K-mount FF and APSc lenses, some 645 lenses, and surprise us with something no one has talked about. Theta will be very active. There will be a major upgrade FF in 2019 or early 2020. That’s 2 years of product calendar.

That’s what Pentax is doing. If that isn’t enough for you then I can’t help.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-20-2018 at 08:00 PM.
02-20-2018, 07:53 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
See my blog posting at Leica vs Pentax |.

I'm just as happy with my current Pentax gear as I was back then. It does everything I want it to do, although I will admit that better auto-focusing in dim light would be helpful (I'm thinking of flamenco photography in dim nightclubs, but even there I can get good results).
Interesting test you did, that mirrors my Leica vs Pentax test way back when. Great minds think alike. BTW, I do have a Leica, since '81. It's a 1951 Leica llf rangefinder with a earlier Leitz Elmar 50mm F 3/5 collapsible lens. It's been a great camera, think it's one of the last of the Leica screw mounts.
02-20-2018, 08:04 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
If you are still using the K-5II in your signature I think you would be shocked at the improvement made with the K-3II. When I was shooting with the k-5 and later k-5II I routinely took two or three shots re-focusing between shots to make sure I got a good one. With the k-3II I don't even bother, it is a waste of time culling out the extra in focus shots.
Good point, Jatrax. When I purchased my K-5 II it was being replaced by the K-3 and its price was dropping. I was being forced into retirement because my IT contract work wasn't there the way it used to be, so I had budget considerations. A K-3 would have required a new grip, while my new K-5 II could use the grip from the K-7. I also checked the reviews which indicated the K-5 II phase detection autofocusing was comparable to that of the K-3 and better than the original K-5 (the last point being confirmed by my own tests); I wasn't concerned with contrast detection autofocusing which wasn't as good in the K-5 II. So that's why I went the way I did. Since then I have not really felt the need for a camera body upgrade; my current equipment does what I want it to do. And I'm currently not doing flamenco photography the way I used to. If all that changes, well . . .
02-20-2018, 08:06 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Kenspo himself (who seems to be accepted here as the oracle, along with Asahiman) recently stated that Pentax were seeking to appeal more to the professional market.
Kenspo is under NDA but does actually have some information shared with him. But cannot actually pass it along. Asahiman is not under NDA and is free to pass on whatever gossip he picks up. So keep in mind that those who know anything are not talking and that those who talk know nothing. So who do you listen to?

And Kenspo IS a professional so his perspective on what to be excited about is IMHO more realistic. But that does not mean that what is exciting to him will be important to anyone else. Just that what is coming are things he likes.

Most importantly Pentax is a tiny company in a quickly shrinking market. Expecting them to bring out new gear at the same pace as new tech like phones or computers is unrealistic IMHO. They goal is not to produce the most number of gadgets, but to survive.

If you are one that likes to have the new gadget of the month I doubt Pentax is the brand for you. Life cycles are being extended and I think they are going to get even longer. We used to day 18 months between APS-C bodies was the norm. I think that will get longer to two years or even more. So a new body every 2 to 3 years might become the norm.
02-20-2018, 08:09 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Interesting test you did, that mirrors my Leica vs Pentax test way back when. Great minds think alike. BTW, I do have a Leica, since '81. It's a 1951 Leica llf rangefinder with a earlier Leitz Elmar 50mm F 3/5 collapsible lens. It's been a great camera, think it's one of the last of the Leica screw mounts.
You make me jealous. I had to sell my Leicas during an extended period of unemployment. But I'm still doing film street photography with my LX, zone focusing and the camera sets the shutter speed.
02-20-2018, 08:13 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
And I'm currently not doing flamenco photography the way I used to. If all that changes, well . . .
I don't mean to put down the K-5II, it was (is) an excellent camera and I used mine extensively. I was only pointing out to some of the naysayers on this thread that AF has improved substantially and not in all that much time. I have used k-x, k-5, k-5II, k-3, k-3II and k-1. Each body has been noticeably better than the one before. And I upgraded to each as they became available. But with the k-3II I see little reason (for me) to upgrade. How many in focus shots of a subject do I want? I've really reduced my shot count because it seemed all I was doing was trying to decide which perfectly in focus shot to keep and which to delete.
02-20-2018, 08:46 PM - 2 Likes   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Kenspo himself (who seems to be accepted here as the oracle, along with Asahiman) recently stated that Pentax were seeking to appeal more to the professional market.

Now if you are a loyal follower of kenspo, what do you think that might entail?

More lenses? Of course.
Anything else?
'Loyal follower of Kenspo' is a dumb phrase. He seems to know what is going on, so using him as a reliable source of information only makes sense; in contrast you just guess and spew out word.
02-20-2018, 09:02 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I don't mean to put down the K-5II, it was (is) an excellent camera and I used mine extensively.
I didn't take your comment, jatrax, as a put-down of the K-5 II. I was just explaining why I purchased it and why, to date, I have not moved beyond it. I might add that the dim nightclubs I have photographed in during the last several years have been very poorly lit, no proper stage lighting at all. A friend of mine who has accompanied me to some of these shows has said that he wasn't sure if his D800 would do any better. A good number of my successful flamenco photographs were taken with a K20D and a K-7. I'm sure with proper stage lighting the keeper rate even with those cameras would have been higher.
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