What is Pentax doing?

zzeitg · 02-20-2018, 12:46 AM

What we need is K-3 successor, which IMHO should be much more focused on sports / wildlife shooting. (fps, AF points, AF speed and accuracy, etc.) That's the future role for APS-C.

For the rest we have K-1 which is great (and the rumoured update will probably be something like "facelift" only (if I use the car industry terminology) instead of a brand new model).

robjmitchell · 02-20-2018, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by zzeitg

What we need is K-3 successor, which IMHO should be much more focused on sports / wildlife shooting. (fps, AF points, AF speed and accuracy, etc.) That's the future role for APS-C.

For the rest we have K-1 which is great (and the rumoured update will probably be something like "facelift" only (if I use the car industry terminology) instead of a brand new model).

To me it sounds like the K1ii comes with a turbo and sports suspension. (Accellerator module and new SR)

**Rondec** · 02-20-2018, 03:49 AM - **4 Likes**

It is clear that Pentax doesn't have the budget of the competitors. That is why it takes a long time for them to release top end lenses and why their tracking auto focus and number of auto focus points is relatively small compared to some others in the industry.

From Pentax's standpoint, their goal is to find niches within the camera industry where their products can flourish. If they come out with a K3 II sequel, I think they will target it to somewhere just a little above a D7500 -- high image quality, decent frame rate, and two card slots -- but not the sports shooter that the D500 is. Tacking on things like pixel shift and accelerator chip certainly should help it stand out in the market place. I am convinced, though, that Pentax's biggest issues have nothing to do with tech and everything to do with marketing and product placement.

We are in the internet era and it should be relatively cheap to develop a "Pentax channel" on You Tube where they do five minute, well produced segments talking about how to get the most out of your Pentax cameras. How to use pixel shift in the field, what settings are best for AF-C and so on. Do some real world videos with guys like Kerrick James and Kenspo when they are doing on location shooting with current Pentax gear.

I will say that I think the issues with regard to auto focus are overblown. My wife does shoot weddings with a K-1 and has no issues capturing all of the moments she needs to get. The lens is as big a factor as the camera body. The older DA * SDM driven lenses do not keep up with action and won't even if the algorithms are awesome. The newer DC driven lenses and DFA zooms are a lot better and I expect the DFA *50 to be in the same ball park. There is progress there and the idea that someone with skills couldn't use Pentax gear to shoot weddings is invalid. The biggest issue with the K-1 and weddings is the buffer size (if you are writing to two cards it fills up awfully fast).

Anyway, I do think Pentax has a plan. It isn't an aggressive plan and we aren't going to see Canon/Nikon/Sony spec monsters, but there will continue to be SLRs with nice ergonomics and interesting features coming out for a long time to come.

**Schraubstock** · 02-20-2018, 03:54 AM - **1 Like**

Poit,
It appears you have not yet discovered the "back button focus" technique.
It has only been briefly mentioned in one reply. (if my speed reading is not tricking me.)
Once you master it there is no looking back.

As a travel photographer you think I would not need it but the benefits are many and varied. I have used the back button for so long without it I am lost. If I happen to use a different camera I keep pressing the spot with my thumb where usually the Pentax button is.

This link explains it well, I thought:
Back Button Focus is Amazing: Learn What, Why, and How

**Digitalis** · 02-20-2018, 04:56 AM - **4 Likes**

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

**Pål Jensen** · 02-20-2018, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

I really am baffled by this. And not just your comment, we see all day, every day people bashing Pentax for poor AF. How good do you want it to be? What am I doing different? Because I have a near 100% keeper rate for autofocus. I don't even try hard. Honestly trying to understand the problem. I assume our shooting styles are different or maybe the subject? Granted I do not shoot at birds or speeding airplanes.

I have no problems with birds either. Professional wildlife photographers shot dancing Sifakas (Lemur) with 1995 vintage Pentax AF (645N) with huge success rate. .

Gedeon · 02-20-2018, 09:20 AM

I agree with POIT. All this seems to me very worrying. Pentax produces very few products, especially new and modernized lenses. Lenses that have made its success before, qualitative, simple and compact lenses. Now, pentax gives us pieces of bricks, at exaggerated prices, and at a very slow frequency. The evolutions are minor. It's easy to say "you just have to be better at focusing" or "just go to Nikon man". The problem is not there. We are loyal to Pentax, and Pentax communicates very little, and has a completely unreadable business strategy. For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR, because I do not know where this company is going.

C_Jones · 02-20-2018, 09:28 AM

I shoot birds and sports, and if I am tracking a subject the AF performs well for me. I usually use AF.C for that type shooting. I do not need to use the back button method for AF. The shutter button is enough for me. If a user has tracking skills and the camera is set correctly (ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture) to handle the type shot, the user will have successful results. I also use "Spot" AF (center point) to track birds/sports to know specifically what I am tracking. The style of the Pentax camera does not overdo itself in the AF points it has available, and what it already has and has had has been viable for me. I am satisfied with the control set and feature availability of the Pentax lineup. If a user practices and has knowledge of what they are doing there will be reasonable results.

**Larrymc** · 02-20-2018, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Poit

At iso 800, f2? Maybe I need some improvement in my own skills.

I sorta thought that putting the focus poit in the subject and using the AF button would do the trick...

Poit, have you considered that you have a setting wrong in the camera setup when using AFC, namely the Hold AF Status, C 18. I have found that my K-3 will refocus pretty quickly with this setting set to off, the camera always seems to be behind on tracking when when set to any other setting. Just a thought.

Larry

zzeitg · 02-20-2018, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Gedeon

For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR

Something tells me that if majority of Pentax users share your point of view, then Pentax is certainly d....... The day is coming.

reh321 · 02-20-2018, 10:34 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Gedeon

For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR, because I do not know where this company is going.

I totally disagree.

I think it is obvious where 'this company' is putting its resources - into improved Image Quality.

The Nikon D500 that has so many people drooling is actually slightly worse than other Nikon products at IQ, but apparently is great at AF. I'm sure Pentax will work on AF, but IQ seems to be where their heart is.

Added: in another thread I commented that FF isn't for me these days; I have a few thirty-year-old FF lenses, but all my current stuff is APS. The KP is aimed at people like me .... getting K-1 benefits at thousands less.

C_Jones · 02-20-2018, 11:00 AM

I use AF.C, AF Point "Spot", "1st Frame Action in AF.C" "Release Priority" (Menu C3 16), "Action in AF.C Continuous" "FPS-Priority" (Menu C3 17), and "Hold AF Status" "Off" (Menu C3 18) with my K-3II. I also usually shoot single frame. Those settings are what I use for sports and birds in flight.

**monochrome** · 02-20-2018, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by C_Jones

I use AF.C, AF Point "Spot", "1st Frame Action in AF.C" "Release Priority" (Menu C3 16), "Action in AF.C Continuous" "FPS-Priority" (Menu C3 17), and "Hold AF Status" "Off" (Menu C3 18) with my K-3II. I also usually shoot single frame. Those settings are what I use for sports and birds in flight.

Frankly, Pentax should publish outcome-specific setting sheets. Eventually there would be a Settings Guide.

**Pål Jensen** · 02-20-2018, 02:18 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

I totally disagree.

I think it is obvious where 'this company' is putting its resources - into improved Image Quality.

That's right. They always have. While Nikon and Canon were targeting the photo journalists whose images was mainly printed in low res in newspapers, Pentax were concentrating on image quality; and particularly on lenses, and high res imaging with medium format.
Pentax has never been about machine gunning images. They were even late providing motor drive....

**twilhelm** · 02-20-2018, 02:22 PM - **1 Like**

I've been shooting weddings since the K10D came out, and I'd like to think my customers have been happy with the results, especially since this Saturday I'll shoot a wedding for a returning customer.

I've seen the Nikon D500 brought up many times as a comparison to what Pentax has. I do not own one and have not shot one, but this is what I wonder. The D500 was released in 2016, and I haven't heard of a definite replacement for it yet. Yes, everyone says the autofocus is better than Pentax, in fact, I've heard it to be the best in apsc, with a 10 fps burst. Great specs for sports and action. But, from what I understand, the 21 MP has one of the worst IQ of apsc available today.

What I'd like to know, how many current K3ii and KP users would give up the IQ, in-body stabilization and etc. and pay $2000 for a body with "action" auto focus?

02-20-2018, 09:28 AM	#53
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,079	I shoot birds and sports, and if I am tracking a subject the AF performs well for me. I usually use AF.C for that type shooting. I do not need to use the back button method for AF. The shutter button is enough for me. If a user has tracking skills and the camera is set correctly (ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture) to handle the type shot, the user will have successful results. I also use "Spot" AF (center point) to track birds/sports to know specifically what I am tracking. The style of the Pentax camera does not overdo itself in the AF points it has available, and what it already has and has had has been viable for me. I am satisfied with the control set and feature availability of the Pentax lineup. If a user practices and has knowledge of what they are doing there will be reasonable results. Last edited by C_Jones; 02-20-2018 at 09:33 AM.

02-20-2018, 10:34 AM - 2 Likes	#56
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by Gedeon For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR, because I do not know where this company is going. I totally disagree. I think it is obvious where 'this company' is putting its resources - into improved Image Quality. The Nikon D500 that has so many people drooling is actually slightly worse than other Nikon products at IQ, but apparently is great at AF. I'm sure Pentax will work on AF, but IQ seems to be where their heart is. Added: in another thread I commented that FF isn't for me these days; I have a few thirty-year-old FF lenses, but all my current stuff is APS. The KP is aimed at people like me .... getting K-1 benefits at thousands less. Last edited by reh321; 02-20-2018 at 10:39 AM. Reason: added comment

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
I Love My Pentax 15-30mm On My K-1 doing close ups!	mhsp1948	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	4	06-20-2017 10:45 AM
Pentax K-1 doing flying dogs and frisbees - cute stuff	beholder3	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	24	10-12-2016 03:01 AM
Nature Assassin bug doing his thing	Knock	Post Your Photos!	2	09-13-2016 11:03 AM
Monitor calibration: What am I doing wrong?	r0ckstarr	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	9	04-27-2016 07:56 AM
Pentax Forums T-shirts - are we doing these again sometime soon?	pathdoc	General Talk	2	03-09-2016 02:01 PM

02-20-2018, 12:46 AM	#46
zzeitg Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: South Bohemia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,017	What we need is K-3 successor, which IMHO should be much more focused on sports / wildlife shooting. (fps, AF points, AF speed and accuracy, etc.) That's the future role for APS-C. For the rest we have K-1 which is great (and the rumoured update will probably be something like "facelift" only (if I use the car industry terminology) instead of a brand new model).

02-20-2018, 01:13 AM	#47
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by zzeitg What we need is K-3 successor, which IMHO should be much more focused on sports / wildlife shooting. (fps, AF points, AF speed and accuracy, etc.) That's the future role for APS-C. For the rest we have K-1 which is great (and the rumoured update will probably be something like "facelift" only (if I use the car industry terminology) instead of a brand new model). To me it sounds like the K1ii comes with a turbo and sports suspension. (Accellerator module and new SR)

02-20-2018, 03:49 AM - 4 Likes	#48
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	It is clear that Pentax doesn't have the budget of the competitors. That is why it takes a long time for them to release top end lenses and why their tracking auto focus and number of auto focus points is relatively small compared to some others in the industry. From Pentax's standpoint, their goal is to find niches within the camera industry where their products can flourish. If they come out with a K3 II sequel, I think they will target it to somewhere just a little above a D7500 -- high image quality, decent frame rate, and two card slots -- but not the sports shooter that the D500 is. Tacking on things like pixel shift and accelerator chip certainly should help it stand out in the market place. I am convinced, though, that Pentax's biggest issues have nothing to do with tech and everything to do with marketing and product placement. We are in the internet era and it should be relatively cheap to develop a "Pentax channel" on You Tube where they do five minute, well produced segments talking about how to get the most out of your Pentax cameras. How to use pixel shift in the field, what settings are best for AF-C and so on. Do some real world videos with guys like Kerrick James and Kenspo when they are doing on location shooting with current Pentax gear. I will say that I think the issues with regard to auto focus are overblown. My wife does shoot weddings with a K-1 and has no issues capturing all of the moments she needs to get. The lens is as big a factor as the camera body. The older DA * SDM driven lenses do not keep up with action and won't even if the algorithms are awesome. The newer DC driven lenses and DFA zooms are a lot better and I expect the DFA *50 to be in the same ball park. There is progress there and the idea that someone with skills couldn't use Pentax gear to shoot weddings is invalid. The biggest issue with the K-1 and weddings is the buffer size (if you are writing to two cards it fills up awfully fast). Anyway, I do think Pentax has a plan. It isn't an aggressive plan and we aren't going to see Canon/Nikon/Sony spec monsters, but there will continue to be SLRs with nice ergonomics and interesting features coming out for a long time to come.

02-20-2018, 03:54 AM - 1 Like	#49
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Poit, It appears you have not yet discovered the "back button focus" technique. It has only been briefly mentioned in one reply. (if my speed reading is not tricking me.) Once you master it there is no looking back. As a travel photographer you think I would not need it but the benefits are many and varied. I have used the back button for so long without it I am lost. If I happen to use a different camera I keep pressing the spot with my thumb where usually the Pentax button is. This link explains it well, I thought: Back Button Focus is Amazing: Learn What, Why, and How

02-20-2018, 04:56 AM - 4 Likes	#50
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	¯\_(ツ)_/¯

02-20-2018, 08:14 AM	#51
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by jatrax I really am baffled by this. And not just your comment, we see all day, every day people bashing Pentax for poor AF. How good do you want it to be? What am I doing different? Because I have a near 100% keeper rate for autofocus. I don't even try hard. Honestly trying to understand the problem. I assume our shooting styles are different or maybe the subject? Granted I do not shoot at birds or speeding airplanes. I have no problems with birds either. Professional wildlife photographers shot dancing Sifakas (Lemur) with 1995 vintage Pentax AF (645N) with huge success rate. .

02-20-2018, 09:20 AM	#52
Gedeon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 246	I agree with POIT. All this seems to me very worrying. Pentax produces very few products, especially new and modernized lenses. Lenses that have made its success before, qualitative, simple and compact lenses. Now, pentax gives us pieces of bricks, at exaggerated prices, and at a very slow frequency. The evolutions are minor. It's easy to say "you just have to be better at focusing" or "just go to Nikon man". The problem is not there. We are loyal to Pentax, and Pentax communicates very little, and has a completely unreadable business strategy. For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR, because I do not know where this company is going.

02-20-2018, 09:47 AM	#54
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by Poit At iso 800, f2? Maybe I need some improvement in my own skills. I sorta thought that putting the focus poit in the subject and using the AF button would do the trick... Poit, have you considered that you have a setting wrong in the camera setup when using AFC, namely the Hold AF Status, C 18. I have found that my K-3 will refocus pretty quickly with this setting set to off, the camera always seems to be behind on tracking when when set to any other setting. Just a thought. Larry

02-20-2018, 10:02 AM	#55
zzeitg Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: South Bohemia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,017	Originally posted by Gedeon For my part, I'm not ready to buy a new K lens or new DSLR Something tells me that if majority of Pentax users share your point of view, then Pentax is certainly d....... The day is coming.

02-20-2018, 11:00 AM	#57
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,079	I use AF.C, AF Point "Spot", "1st Frame Action in AF.C" "Release Priority" (Menu C3 16), "Action in AF.C Continuous" "FPS-Priority" (Menu C3 17), and "Hold AF Status" "Off" (Menu C3 18) with my K-3II. I also usually shoot single frame. Those settings are what I use for sports and birds in flight.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-20-2018, 11:07 AM	#58
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by C_Jones I use AF.C, AF Point "Spot", "1st Frame Action in AF.C" "Release Priority" (Menu C3 16), "Action in AF.C Continuous" "FPS-Priority" (Menu C3 17), and "Hold AF Status" "Off" (Menu C3 18) with my K-3II. I also usually shoot single frame. Those settings are what I use for sports and birds in flight. Frankly, Pentax should publish outcome-specific setting sheets. Eventually there would be a Settings Guide.

02-20-2018, 02:18 PM - 3 Likes	#59
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by reh321 I totally disagree. I think it is obvious where 'this company' is putting its resources - into improved Image Quality. That's right. They always have. While Nikon and Canon were targeting the photo journalists whose images was mainly printed in low res in newspapers, Pentax were concentrating on image quality; and particularly on lenses, and high res imaging with medium format. Pentax has never been about machine gunning images. They were even late providing motor drive....

02-20-2018, 02:22 PM - 1 Like	#60
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	I've been shooting weddings since the K10D came out, and I'd like to think my customers have been happy with the results, especially since this Saturday I'll shoot a wedding for a returning customer. I've seen the Nikon D500 brought up many times as a comparison to what Pentax has. I do not own one and have not shot one, but this is what I wonder. The D500 was released in 2016, and I haven't heard of a definite replacement for it yet. Yes, everyone says the autofocus is better than Pentax, in fact, I've heard it to be the best in apsc, with a 10 fps burst. Great specs for sports and action. But, from what I understand, the 21 MP has one of the worst IQ of apsc available today. What I'd like to know, how many current K3ii and KP users would give up the IQ, in-body stabilization and etc. and pay $2000 for a body with "action" auto focus?