Again, Sigma 105mm f1.4 lens not in K-mount

mee · 02-26-2018, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Not enough Pentaxians ever bought the Sigma 18-35mm Art or the Sigma 35mm Art.

People insist we need their lenses, actual sales said this was never true.

The issue is those aren't ideal lenses to base all lens sales off of. They should try again. This time with lenses that fill wider gaps.. such as the 20 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.4 as well as the 150-600mm.. maybe even the 24-105 f/4 or the 100-400mm f/slow

Whatever the selection, the point being Sigma could have chosen lenses that are not directly competing with other lenses in K mount and sold a lot more as a result.

If I still had my K-1, I'd be all over a 24-105 f/4 art and the 100-400 f/slow... while eyeballing that 50 f/1.4 art. Not because I need that speed but because if you're the only (decent in my mind) game in town then I'll pay to play. I just bought a 45 f/1.8 and a 100-400 f/slow last week and this week to go with my 24-120 f/4 and the 16-35 f/4 I bought late last year. Had K mount offered these lenses I'd still have my K-1...

I'd say it would be like sticking one's head in the sand to claim lens selection isn't a factor... And Sigma create some nice ones these days. But there just isn't a big enough userbase for it to make sense. That is, perhaps a bigger issue for Sigma is they more than likely make more money filling extra CaNikon orders than they could ever make in most K mount lens over just offering more copies in EF/F of that specific lens? Canon, for one, could pass gas the 5% or so marketshare that makes up Pentax and still not flinch. We make up a tiny number here..

Last edited by mee; 02-26-2018 at 09:08 PM.

**clackers** · 02-26-2018, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by mee

Whatever the selection, the point being Sigma could have chosen lenses that are not directly competing with other lenses in K mount and sold a lot more as a result..

I think that's valid, the 35 Art was up against the 31 Ltd and the 85 against the 77, and despite being cheaper, failed to convince Pentaxians. I'm one of the few who has the 35 and love it, BTW.

The problem is that Sigma became so discouraged by those results they didn't want to experiment further. They had guaranteed sales, and lots of 'em, with Canon and Nikon, and increasingly Sony, they don't need to build for Fuji, Rioch, Olympus, Panny, etc.

**clackers** · 02-26-2018, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by cmohr

I'd even have to say, why not have a special order line up for K-mount. as I also said, I understand Sigma / Tamron doing away with having to have all the mech involved with the screwdrive AF , now its all HSM, it really is just an interface and mount to suit.

I'd buy that Sigma Sport 500mm/f4 tommorrow if I could order it. (or would have , had I not just bought a FA*600/f4), I like that 14mm/1.4 tho.

I agree, the Sigma 18-35/f1.8, great, but, on a crop sensor, it's not really a greatly desired focal range in my opinion, the 35 art lens is excellent , maybe just a bit late for some, the 85/1.4 great as well, but now gone. So many Pentaxians jumped on the 10-20, and the 8-16, because we needed ultrawides, I had the 12-24 from back before I had a D*ist . The bigma's sold heaps, as did the 70-200/2.8's , lets not forget about the 100-300/f4......, there are a number of lenses that are really good sellers in Pentax land.

I have the Sigma 10-20, 17-50, 35, 100 Macro and 150-500, as well as Tamron 17-50, 28-75, 90 Macro and 70-200, Cmohr, but owners like me are rare.

Check out the photos posted in this forum over the years even back in the golden days of third party availability, and few Pentaxians ever actually bought them, so it's a myth that they were necessary.

**clackers** · 02-26-2018, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by cmohr

I wouldn't say rare at all. Pleanty of people with all those lenses in their kits.

Myself.

SIGMA LENSES
Sigma 8mm F4 EX Circular Fisheye
Sigma 14mm F2.8 EX Aspherical Rectilinear
Sigma 24mm F2.8 AF Super Wide II
Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC
Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM
Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical
Sigma 15-30mm F3.5-4.5 EX DG
Sigma 300mm F2.8 EX APO DG
Sigma's 400mm f5.6 AF
Sigma 600mm F8 Mirror

TELE-CONVERTERS

Tamron 2x (de-glassed)
Kenko Pz-AF 1.5X
Sigma APO DG EX 1.4x
Sigma APO DG EX 2x

also, sold my 10-20,
and my earlier 35-70 and 70-250 manual focus zooms.

I think my point is, I'm not completely convinced it's a sales thing that has Sigma dropping the K-mount, I think there's a little politics in there as well.

Yep, you and me have parted with a lot of dollars in their directions, but look at the years of photos in the forum, mate, go to the Lens Clubs, don't just take my word for it, and the signature lines, there's bugger all.

Norm Head has a K-mount 300mm Tamron f2.8. He points out that there were only a hundred ever manufactured.

mee · 02-26-2018, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by cmohr

I'd even have to say, why not have a special order line up for K-mount. as I also said, I understand Sigma / Tamron doing away with having to have all the mech involved with the screwdrive AF , now its all HSM, it really is just an interface and mount to suit.

I suggested that and Adam or someone from PF ran that idea by Sigma reps last year I think.. iirc.. and they weren't even willing to consider it.

I think PF has a decent enough userbase to consider special order in bulk of certain lenses. Pre pay a bulk order... but I think it is down to the numbers... we're just too tiny right now to make the effort for them worthwhile versus what they sell in other mounts... from r&d to support KAF3/4 to switching production lines to deliver these bulk orders.

They can, instead, just keep churning EF and F mount like they are and make up all the money they'd have made by spending the time and money on 'retooling' to support K, sadly.

mohb · 02-27-2018, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by cmohr

I think my point is, I'm not completely convinced it's a sales thing that has Sigma dropping the K-mount, I think there's a little politics in there as well.

The Sigma owner said in an interview that it's down to their limited production capacity as their factory is still in the home town of the founder and they have no room to expand so making Pentax entails stopping making Canikon whilst doing so.

vonBaloney · 02-27-2018, 07:20 AM

Sigma factory videos:

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

lesmore49 · 02-28-2018, 04:16 PM

Too bad about after market suppliers, not making Pentax mount lenses. I avoided after market lenses for decades after having negative experiences with lens performance with two aftermarket lenses back in the early '70's. After that I decided that I would stick with the original manufacturer's product.

So over the years with my Pentax camera, I just bought many Pentax mount lenses and have been happy with this choice. But a few years ago, I wanted a telephoto zoom in the 500mm range, for pix of birding, wild animals and drag racing cars.

I gave up waiting for Pentax...this was before the intro of the 150-450...and bit the bullet, buying a new Sigma 150-500. Well the Sigma was a nice surprise. It's been an excellent lens...as long as I'm careful with shutter speed, F stop, ISO, time of day. I'm pleased with this big lens. I call it my 'Bigma'.

Anyways based on my experience with my Bigma, if Sigma or Tamron had a well rated, well built, K mount, full frame, wide angle, prime lens in the 15-20mm area...for my K-1....I'd buy it. To my knowledge they don't and probably won't.... so I will patiently wait (have no other choice

) for Pentax to hopefully bring out a new lens in this approximate focal length.

Like many other Pentaxians, my lens budget is there....but currently the product isn't. If I had bought a Canon 5D3 or a Nikon D810...I believe I would have the choice. But I had the chance to get the Canikon(s) but chose the K-1. I'm generally happy with the K-1 and really prefer the Pentax line. So I'm not saying good bye, I'm just being patient and it looks like there maybe a wide angle on the Pentax lens roadmap that meets my criteria, coming out sometime in 2019. Hope so, because as an old guy, my personal roadmap is getting shorter.

Meanwhile...I'll make do with my Pentax 12-24...err...18-24...or 27mm to whatever... on the K-1 or my lovely but not wide enough Pentax 28-105.

**clackers** · 02-28-2018, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by lesmore49

Anyways based on my experience with my Bigma, if Sigma or Tamron had a well rated, well built, K mount, full frame, wide angle, prime lens in the 15-20mm area...for my K-1....I'd buy it ...

Meanwhile...I'll make do with my Pentax 12-24...err...18-24...or 27mm to whatever... on the K-1 or my lovely but not wide enough Pentax 28-105.

Obviously, Les, the Pentax 15-30 covers all of the 15-20 range you were talking about ... and more!

I have the DA12-24 like you and it works well together with the 28-105 and my Prime For The Day in a backpack with the K-1.

But I have - and you should consider too - the Irix 15mm. WR, f2.4, sharp, you can lock it off for astro. Manual focus of course, but that won't trouble a man of your skills.

**jatrax** · 02-28-2018, 04:51 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by clackers

you can lock it off for astro.

What do mean by this? Sorry to be dense having a senior ~~minute~~ day

**clackers** · 02-28-2018, 06:12 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by jatrax

What do mean by this? Sorry to be dense having a senior ~~minute~~ day

The ring furthest away from the body is a focus lock, so if you set it to get a skateboarder appearing suddenly or to infinity on a bright star then swing it around to the Milky Way, you're not going to lose it when you carry it or knock against it.

**jatrax** · 02-28-2018, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by clackers

is a focus lock

Got it, thanks. That actually seems useful for astro.

lesmore49 · 02-28-2018, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Obviously, Les, the Pentax 15-30 covers all of the 15-20 range you were talking about ... and more!

I have the DA12-24 like you and it works well together with the 28-105 and my Prime For The Day in a backpack with the K-1.

But I have - and you should consider too - the Irix 15mm. WR, f2.4, sharp, you can lock it off for astro. Manual focus of course, but that won't trouble a man of your skills.

Quite right Clackers about the Pentax 15-20, but I've been thinking about a prime. I've thought about the Irix and think the other prime that approximates that focal length is the Samyang, I believe.

The manual focus has me a bit concerned.

It's true that I've used many a manual focused lens through my photographic life, but I'm getting on and the old eyes aren't what they used to be. I also must admit that I've been spoiled my automatic focus.

I still do like going back to my photographic roots every so often, by setting my DSLR's on manual and metering with my hand held Sekonic L-398.

**clackers** · 03-01-2018, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by lesmore49

The manual focus has me a bit concerned.

It's true that I've used many a manual focused lens through my photographic life, but I'm getting on and the old eyes aren't what they used to be. I also must admit that I've been spoiled my automatic focus.

But you only have to turn the ring, Les ... it will beep when the autofocus system says the central point is there. Recompose to suit, not a problem with a wide angle.

lesmore49 · 03-01-2018, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by clackers

But you only have to turn the ring, Les ... it will beep when the autofocus system says the central point is there. Recompose to suit, not a problem with a wide angle.

I didn't know that. But not only is my sight not what it used to be...so is my hearing.

The penalties of age.

02-26-2018, 09:34 PM	#17
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by mee Whatever the selection, the point being Sigma could have chosen lenses that are not directly competing with other lenses in K mount and sold a lot more as a result.. I think that's valid, the 35 Art was up against the 31 Ltd and the 85 against the 77, and despite being cheaper, failed to convince Pentaxians. I'm one of the few who has the 35 and love it, BTW. The problem is that Sigma became so discouraged by those results they didn't want to experiment further. They had guaranteed sales, and lots of 'em, with Canon and Nikon, and increasingly Sony, they don't need to build for Fuji, Rioch, Olympus, Panny, etc. Last edited by clackers; 02-26-2018 at 09:41 PM.

02-28-2018, 11:19 PM	#28
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	Originally posted by clackers Obviously, Les, the Pentax 15-30 covers all of the 15-20 range you were talking about ... and more! I have the DA12-24 like you and it works well together with the 28-105 and my Prime For The Day in a backpack with the K-1. But I have - and you should consider too - the Irix 15mm. WR, f2.4, sharp, you can lock it off for astro. Manual focus of course, but that won't trouble a man of your skills. Quite right Clackers about the Pentax 15-20, but I've been thinking about a prime. I've thought about the Irix and think the other prime that approximates that focal length is the Samyang, I believe. The manual focus has me a bit concerned. It's true that I've used many a manual focused lens through my photographic life, but I'm getting on and the old eyes aren't what they used to be. I also must admit that I've been spoiled my automatic focus. I still do like going back to my photographic roots every so often, by setting my DSLR's on manual and metering with my hand held Sekonic L-398. Last edited by lesmore49; 02-28-2018 at 11:27 PM.

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02-26-2018, 09:01 PM	#16
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by clackers Not enough Pentaxians ever bought the Sigma 18-35mm Art or the Sigma 35mm Art. People insist we need their lenses, actual sales said this was never true. The issue is those aren't ideal lenses to base all lens sales off of. They should try again. This time with lenses that fill wider gaps.. such as the 20 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.4 as well as the 150-600mm.. maybe even the 24-105 f/4 or the 100-400mm f/slow Whatever the selection, the point being Sigma could have chosen lenses that are not directly competing with other lenses in K mount and sold a lot more as a result. If I still had my K-1, I'd be all over a 24-105 f/4 art and the 100-400 f/slow... while eyeballing that 50 f/1.4 art. Not because I need that speed but because if you're the only (decent in my mind) game in town then I'll pay to play. I just bought a 45 f/1.8 and a 100-400 f/slow last week and this week to go with my 24-120 f/4 and the 16-35 f/4 I bought late last year. Had K mount offered these lenses I'd still have my K-1... I'd say it would be like sticking one's head in the sand to claim lens selection isn't a factor... And Sigma create some nice ones these days. But there just isn't a big enough userbase for it to make sense. That is, perhaps a bigger issue for Sigma is they more than likely make more money filling extra CaNikon orders than they could ever make in most K mount lens over just offering more copies in EF/F of that specific lens? Canon, for one, could pass gas the 5% or so marketshare that makes up Pentax and still not flinch. We make up a tiny number here.. Last edited by mee; 02-26-2018 at 09:08 PM.

02-26-2018, 09:52 PM	#18
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by cmohr I'd even have to say, why not have a special order line up for K-mount. as I also said, I understand Sigma / Tamron doing away with having to have all the mech involved with the screwdrive AF , now its all HSM, it really is just an interface and mount to suit. I'd buy that Sigma Sport 500mm/f4 tommorrow if I could order it. (or would have , had I not just bought a FA600/f4), I like that 14mm/1.4 tho. I agree, the Sigma 18-35/f1.8, great, but, on a crop sensor, it's not really a greatly desired focal range in my opinion, the 35 art lens is excellent , maybe just a bit late for some, the 85/1.4 great as well, but now gone. So many Pentaxians jumped on the 10-20, and the 8-16, because we needed ultrawides, I had the 12-24 from back before I had a Dist . The bigma's sold heaps, as did the 70-200/2.8's , lets not forget about the 100-300/f4......, there are a number of lenses that are really good sellers in Pentax land. I have the Sigma 10-20, 17-50, 35, 100 Macro and 150-500, as well as Tamron 17-50, 28-75, 90 Macro and 70-200, Cmohr, but owners like me are rare. Check out the photos posted in this forum over the years even back in the golden days of third party availability, and few Pentaxians ever actually bought them, so it's a myth that they were necessary.

02-26-2018, 10:02 PM	#19
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by cmohr I wouldn't say rare at all. Pleanty of people with all those lenses in their kits. Myself. SIGMA LENSES Sigma 8mm F4 EX Circular Fisheye Sigma 14mm F2.8 EX Aspherical Rectilinear Sigma 24mm F2.8 AF Super Wide II Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical Sigma 15-30mm F3.5-4.5 EX DG Sigma 300mm F2.8 EX APO DG Sigma's 400mm f5.6 AF Sigma 600mm F8 Mirror TELE-CONVERTERS Tamron 2x (de-glassed) Kenko Pz-AF 1.5X Sigma APO DG EX 1.4x Sigma APO DG EX 2x also, sold my 10-20, and my earlier 35-70 and 70-250 manual focus zooms. I think my point is, I'm not completely convinced it's a sales thing that has Sigma dropping the K-mount, I think there's a little politics in there as well. Yep, you and me have parted with a lot of dollars in their directions, but look at the years of photos in the forum, mate, go to the Lens Clubs, don't just take my word for it, and the signature lines, there's bugger all. Norm Head has a K-mount 300mm Tamron f2.8. He points out that there were only a hundred ever manufactured.

02-26-2018, 10:14 PM	#20
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by cmohr I'd even have to say, why not have a special order line up for K-mount. as I also said, I understand Sigma / Tamron doing away with having to have all the mech involved with the screwdrive AF , now its all HSM, it really is just an interface and mount to suit. I suggested that and Adam or someone from PF ran that idea by Sigma reps last year I think.. iirc.. and they weren't even willing to consider it. I think PF has a decent enough userbase to consider special order in bulk of certain lenses. Pre pay a bulk order... but I think it is down to the numbers... we're just too tiny right now to make the effort for them worthwhile versus what they sell in other mounts... from r&d to support KAF3/4 to switching production lines to deliver these bulk orders. They can, instead, just keep churning EF and F mount like they are and make up all the money they'd have made by spending the time and money on 'retooling' to support K, sadly.

02-27-2018, 02:44 AM	#21
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by cmohr I think my point is, I'm not completely convinced it's a sales thing that has Sigma dropping the K-mount, I think there's a little politics in there as well. The Sigma owner said in an interview that it's down to their limited production capacity as their factory is still in the home town of the founder and they have no room to expand so making Pentax entails stopping making Canikon whilst doing so.

02-28-2018, 04:16 PM	#23
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	Too bad about after market suppliers, not making Pentax mount lenses. I avoided after market lenses for decades after having negative experiences with lens performance with two aftermarket lenses back in the early '70's. After that I decided that I would stick with the original manufacturer's product. So over the years with my Pentax camera, I just bought many Pentax mount lenses and have been happy with this choice. But a few years ago, I wanted a telephoto zoom in the 500mm range, for pix of birding, wild animals and drag racing cars. I gave up waiting for Pentax...this was before the intro of the 150-450...and bit the bullet, buying a new Sigma 150-500. Well the Sigma was a nice surprise. It's been an excellent lens...as long as I'm careful with shutter speed, F stop, ISO, time of day. I'm pleased with this big lens. I call it my 'Bigma'. Anyways based on my experience with my Bigma, if Sigma or Tamron had a well rated, well built, K mount, full frame, wide angle, prime lens in the 15-20mm area...for my K-1....I'd buy it. To my knowledge they don't and probably won't.... so I will patiently wait (have no other choice ) for Pentax to hopefully bring out a new lens in this approximate focal length. Like many other Pentaxians, my lens budget is there....but currently the product isn't. If I had bought a Canon 5D3 or a Nikon D810...I believe I would have the choice. But I had the chance to get the Canikon(s) but chose the K-1. I'm generally happy with the K-1 and really prefer the Pentax line. So I'm not saying good bye, I'm just being patient and it looks like there maybe a wide angle on the Pentax lens roadmap that meets my criteria, coming out sometime in 2019. Hope so, because as an old guy, my personal roadmap is getting shorter. Meanwhile...I'll make do with my Pentax 12-24...err...18-24...or 27mm to whatever... on the K-1 or my lovely but not wide enough Pentax 28-105.

02-28-2018, 04:39 PM	#24
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by lesmore49 Anyways based on my experience with my Bigma, if Sigma or Tamron had a well rated, well built, K mount, full frame, wide angle, prime lens in the 15-20mm area...for my K-1....I'd buy it ... Meanwhile...I'll make do with my Pentax 12-24...err...18-24...or 27mm to whatever... on the K-1 or my lovely but not wide enough Pentax 28-105. Obviously, Les, the Pentax 15-30 covers all of the 15-20 range you were talking about ... and more! I have the DA12-24 like you and it works well together with the 28-105 and my Prime For The Day in a backpack with the K-1. But I have - and you should consider too - the Irix 15mm. WR, f2.4, sharp, you can lock it off for astro. Manual focus of course, but that won't trouble a man of your skills.

02-28-2018, 04:51 PM - 2 Likes	#25
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by clackers you can lock it off for astro. What do mean by this? Sorry to be dense having a senior ~~minute~~ day

02-28-2018, 06:12 PM - 2 Likes	#26
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jatrax What do mean by this? Sorry to be dense having a senior ~~minute~~ day The ring furthest away from the body is a focus lock, so if you set it to get a skateboarder appearing suddenly or to infinity on a bright star then swing it around to the Milky Way, you're not going to lose it when you carry it or knock against it.

02-28-2018, 06:18 PM	#27
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by clackers is a focus lock Got it, thanks. That actually seems useful for astro.

03-01-2018, 02:08 AM	#29
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by lesmore49 The manual focus has me a bit concerned. It's true that I've used many a manual focused lens through my photographic life, but I'm getting on and the old eyes aren't what they used to be. I also must admit that I've been spoiled my automatic focus. But you only have to turn the ring, Les ... it will beep when the autofocus system says the central point is there. Recompose to suit, not a problem with a wide angle.

03-01-2018, 07:16 AM	#30
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	Originally posted by clackers But you only have to turn the ring, Les ... it will beep when the autofocus system says the central point is there. Recompose to suit, not a problem with a wide angle. I didn't know that. But not only is my sight not what it used to be...so is my hearing. The penalties of age.