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03-20-2018, 06:32 PM   #31
maw
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
This was one camera store's list with no legal reporting requirements, yet that's not how you treated it
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I do not think that information is correct
I apologize only for the title actually not exact maybe due to the haste to write, should be corrected (or read) so "Top Ten of the 10 best selling cameras in Map Camera"'

However, this is the exact release of the list, which is reliable since it is a magazine of the photographic sector and then transmitted to the various directors of newspapers.
Everyone has their own sources... and the sources are never revealed, ''Is it espionage? Call it as you want, I've already said it as I think it'''.

This is the text already sent with the exception of the list. If you do not believe me I can always provide you with the link to the magazine, would you agree?

The major Japanese store Map Camera has announced that also in February the Nikon D850 was the best-selling camera.
This is the list of the Top Ten, which include four Nikon cameras followed by two Canon, two Panasonic, one Sony and an Olympus.

1. Nikon D850
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?
. ?

03-20-2018, 06:58 PM   #32
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This discussion has taken a weird turn. It's not fake information, neither is it secret, inside information.

Every month Map Camera releases this information, presumably as promotion, and it is picked up DC Watch. Here is the article on the February ranking. If you scroll down, there is a second list which is used cameras sold. I guess this is where maw found this information.
Map Camera?2???????????????? - ???? Watch

As you might imagine from the cameras in the list, Map Camera is one of the more serious camera stores. People without an interest in photography would not know of it. So it is an interesting measure of what enthusiasts and professionals are buying for the month. Incidentally, if you find yourself in Tokyo, it is a great store to look for used or new camera gear. They have loads of stuff and are used to dealing with foreigners.

What is clear is that D850 is doing very well for Nikon. I think it makes sense because it has the kind of improvements over it's predecessors that would justify an upgrade. It's versatile enough that it could serve as a logical upgrade from several of Nikon's previous cameras.

If you want to get a completely different view of Japan camera sales, the BCN Ranking for the last month is completely different. This covers much more of the market, but more general electronics stores (like Best Buy, Target in the US). The items in the list are very different. Impressively the D850 is at 21 even on this ranking. However, Sony A7/A9 are nowhere to be seen.
????? ????????? - BCN RETAIL

There is no single ranking in Japan that can tell categorically which camera is selling best, but if you look at a few, you can get an idea.
03-20-2018, 07:42 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
This discussion has taken a weird turn. It's not fake information, neither is it secret, inside information.
Thank you for the clarification and for your exhaustive anamnesis, I think you have clarified some aspects that can be known, only living in Tokyo or in the city or place where the events take place.
At the moment, there is no winner and no loser.
03-20-2018, 08:34 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by maw Quote
At the moment, there is no winner and no loser.
I wish my washing machine could spin as well as you do, Maw, no doubt!

03-20-2018, 09:00 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I wish my washing machine could spin as well as you do
Hi clackers,

I don't know how to use the washing machine at all, I can do it better in the kitchen, don't you feel a little bit of fragrance?

Last edited by maw; 03-20-2018 at 09:28 PM.
03-21-2018, 12:11 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by maw Quote
Hi,

I don't know them, but generally everyone in stores sell both kinds, new and used. I have a friend from a shop in Tokyo and this month I bought two new optics from her (Pentax),
I quote her answer to my question about Pentax.

"In Japan, Pentax is probably not very competitive among optical companies today.
Most popular manufacture is probably Sony, then Canon. Nikon is slightly behind Canon nowadays then, Panasonic/Fujifilm, Olympus, probably Pentax is the last among them.
It does not mean Pentax technology is not advanced or inferior.. Just because today, more people like mirrorless cameras and more people want to shoot movies.
Last year Pentax announced they are going to downsize the camera business. It's a sad news. So photographers like you can help Pentax to move on.
"

Arigato
Ricoh didn't announce they are going to downsize the camera business. Your friend is mistaken the rumor instigated by Nikkei for official information.
What Ricoh announced was:
QuoteQuote:
Today there was an article saying that RICOH considers to shrink the camera business and withdraw from consumer products. This article is not based on RICOH's official announcement.

RICOH is focusing its resource on the high added value products such as PENTAX and GR that are appreciated by the existing users and photo hobbyists. RICOH is also a market leader of input devices in the VR or AR market with its "RICOH THETA" where we can see rapid growth, and will keep on expanding the business even more in this field. In addition, RICOH will develop and expand the imaging business in the solution business field for corporate, by creating new market utilizing its own camera technology.
With regard to the article about RICOH today | Global | Ricoh
03-21-2018, 02:32 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
This discussion has taken a weird turn. It's not fake information, neither is it secret, inside information.

Every month Map Camera releases this information, presumably as promotion, and it is picked up DC Watch. Here is the article on the February ranking. If you scroll down, there is a second list which is used cameras sold. I guess this is where maw found this information.
Map Camera?2???????????????? - ???? Watch

As you might imagine from the cameras in the list, Map Camera is one of the more serious camera stores. People without an interest in photography would not know of it. So it is an interesting measure of what enthusiasts and professionals are buying for the month. Incidentally, if you find yourself in Tokyo, it is a great store to look for used or new camera gear. They have loads of stuff and are used to dealing with foreigners.

What is clear is that D850 is doing very well for Nikon. I think it makes sense because it has the kind of improvements over it's predecessors that would justify an upgrade. It's versatile enough that it could serve as a logical upgrade from several of Nikon's previous cameras.

If you want to get a completely different view of Japan camera sales, the BCN Ranking for the last month is completely different. This covers much more of the market, but more general electronics stores (like Best Buy, Target in the US). The items in the list are very different. Impressively the D850 is at 21 even on this ranking. However, Sony A7/A9 are nowhere to be seen.
????? ????????? - BCN RETAIL

There is no single ranking in Japan that can tell categorically which camera is selling best, but if you look at a few, you can get an idea.
The BCN list is more what I would expect -- dominated by smaller sensor cameras with the first full frame coming in at number 18 with the 6D II. I'm sure the D850 is selling well, I just can't imagine that it is number one camera in terms of number of units sold anywhere, but maybe MAP just caters to folks who want really high end gear.
03-21-2018, 05:14 AM   #38
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Interesting figures from BCN which show Japanese customers are as keen on a bargain as anyone else. The split across the top 50 is about 60/40 in favour of mirrorless cameras. The mirrorless cameras look to be more pop at the lower to mid levels of the market. I guess this may explain Canon's recent comments about concentrating their mirrorless efforts in that area, at least begin with. It's the one with the best sales and, one guesses, the best discounts. Fuji just manage to squeeze in the rankings with the X-T20 but once one starts to hit the magic 1000 mark in our money things start to become rarified very quickly. It's also interesting to see how well the 6D Mark II is doing considering its price and format and despite being roundly condemned as a poor effort by gear sites far and wide. Just goes to show how little enthusiast views count out there in the big wide world.

03-21-2018, 07:14 AM   #39
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And how do I know that this isn't a list of "the Cameras we'd like to sell you based on the amount of inventory we'd like to clear."?
After all, it is a camera store.

It's an interesting list, but I've yet to see a D850 in the wild. If I was to compile the "Normhead list of cameras being used by wildlife shooters in Algonquin Park", the D750 ( among newer cameras because there are many who have never upgraded their 1dx or D4 cameras) would be king and Pentax wouldn't exist. Except that several Pentax shooters have visited me up here. But they don't count.

I did see woman at Bird Kingdom in Niagara Falls with brand new Canon 5d mkIII, trying to take pictures or birds with a kit lens. Where does that fit in the overall scheme of things?

My guess is that type of shooter rarely buys Pentax. I think that's the market everyone wants Pentax to reach out to. If we can just attract those customers who haven't clue what they are doing. Pentax should be asking themselves, "How can we reach that market?"

Last edited by normhead; 03-21-2018 at 07:20 AM.
03-21-2018, 10:11 AM   #40
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Whoever bets on a product knows that reliability is at least good or the market trend is positive, the fact that in the ranking there are still reflexes,
means that the market is still in turmoil. Why Nikon has launched a new "filmmaker kit? Don't you bet on a losing horse? Do not believe.
The rest of the story has yet to be written. Of course I agree with those who say that the mirrorless market is becoming increasingly popular. Sorry but I'm not interested.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I did see woman at Bird Kingdom in Niagara Falls with brand new Canon 5d mkIII
Last summer a French journalist came to Sardinia, who is making a photojournalistic service, I was dazzled why?
He had a Pentax K1 around his neck (I would have expected Nikon, Canon or something else, not a mirrorless), simply Pentax. If I found the service I would publish it.

The new Kit Nikon 850 for filmakers

03-21-2018, 10:34 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by maw Quote
Whoever bets on a product knows that reliability is at least good or the market trend is positive, the fact that in the ranking there are still reflexes,
means that the market is still in turmoil. Why Nikon has launched a new "filmmaker kit? Don't you bet on a losing horse? Do not believe.
The rest of the story has yet to be written. Of course I agree with those who say that the mirrorless market is becoming increasingly popular. Sorry but I'm not interested.



Last summer a French journalist came to Sardinia, who is making a photojournalistic service, I was dazzled why?
He had a Pentax K1 around his neck (I would have expected Nikon, Canon or something else, not a mirrorless), simply Pentax. If I found the service I would publish it.

The new Kit Nikon 850 for filmakers
That Nikon video kit - I can see why they are doing it but it smacks of middle-aged managers trying to play trendy and in any case it looks as if further bits and pieces would be needed for a full job. It's hard to see many cool kids using a D850 and that kit. Zeitgeist has at least as much to do with camera sales as anything else. Fashions play a big part in the industry, imho, with technical specs either seen as not so important or merely advanced as arguments by one side or the other. if that kit had a Nikon mirorless camera inside it would probably be flying, not because it was better necessarily but because it was in tune with the times. But I'd wager that many of the same folks would be very happy to use the D850 as a stills camera since as a stills camera it is clearly among the best money can buy.
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