It's a shame we can't talk about DPreview here...

enoeske · 06-13-2018, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by normhead

But if you can find some "socially redeeming importance" I'll be happy to change my mind. If you want to discuss them, it should be on you to correct their devious anti-Pentax slant. Are you willing to do that?

That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles.

I had someone comment regarding DPR, "Wha...?Reviews are almost always fair and really shine a good light on Pentax. The reason I bought the K5 a while back was because of a DPR review that praised that camera and touted it as the best APSC camera at the time."

I tried to list just a few of the ways that they aren't fair and do not shine a good light on Pentax. However, this was up to my memory of recent posts, many of which have been altered or corrected. So, I thought it would be helpful to list the errors and why these were factually incorrect.

I do not want a thread of DPR hating or people posting about how they've been banned. It would be a helpful thread.

But it was closed almost immediately for no reason.

reh321 · 06-13-2018, 11:12 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by steve_k

If it gets us to 40,000 posts. I'm for it. :-)

I'm not.
I see a purpose of this project being to put positive energy into this place. There has been way too much negative talk, most of which cannot lead to anything positive.

**BigMackCam** · 06-13-2018, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by enoeske

That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles.

I had someone comment regarding DPR, "Wha...?Reviews are almost always fair and really shine a good light on Pentax. The reason I bought the K5 a while back was because of a DPR review that praised that camera and touted it as the best APSC camera at the time."

I tried to list just a few of the ways that they aren't fair and do not shine a good light on Pentax. However, this was up to my memory of recent posts, many of which have been altered or corrected. So, I thought it would be helpful to list the errors and why these were factually incorrect.

I do not want a thread of DPR hating or people posting about how they've been banned. It would be a helpful thread.

But it was closed almost immediately for no reason.

The problem with a thread like that (and I've just read it for the first time) is that you'd get a lot more than constructive input on DPR's Pentax-related errors and factual inaccuracies. However well-intentioned its beginnings, I'd hazard a guess that within a page or two, it would evolve into exactly the kind of flaming that @Adam has stated he doesn't want.

I suspect that's why my colleague closed the thread, and posted the reason why. The same will happen with this thread if it turns into a DPR flaming exercise

CarlJF · 06-13-2018, 11:22 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

The first goal of evil individuals, is to try and eliminate legitimate dissent. These individuals are so weak, the tiny little bit of power they have has corrupted them.

Are you still talking about DPR or rather some well known politician ?

Last edited by CarlJF; 06-13-2018 at 03:31 PM.

enoeske · 06-13-2018, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

The problem with a thread like that (and I've just read it for the first time) is that you'd get a lot more than constructive input on DPR's Pentax-related errors and factual inaccuracies. However well-intentioned its beginnings, I'd hazard a guess that within a page or two, it would evolve into exactly the kind of flaming that @Adam has stated he doesn't want.

I suspect that's why my colleague closed the thread, and posted the reason why. The same will happen with this thread if it turns into a DPR flaming exercise

Well, since, in my opinion, it would be a constructive thread, so long as our great members here can remain on topic, and it did not have a single "flaming" post, it would seem that we cannot discuss DPR on this website.

**BigMackCam** · 06-13-2018, 11:33 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by enoeske

Well, since, in my opinion, it would be a constructive thread, so long as our great members here can remain on topic, and it did not have a single "flaming" post, it would seem that we cannot discuss DPR on this website.

No, as Adam and I have already said, we can. But the admins and moderators reserve the right to manage threads and posts as needed

Let's leave it there, and see how this thread evolves...

enoeske · 06-13-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

No, as Adam and I have already said, we can. But the admins and moderators reserve the right to manage threads and posts as needed

Let's leave it there, and see how this thread evolves...

Sorry, I am just trying to figure it out. There seems to be conflicting and/or arbitrary rules for threads.

**BigMackCam** · 06-13-2018, 11:41 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by enoeske

Sorry, I am just trying to figure it out. There seems to be conflicting and/or arbitrary rules for threads.

No worries.

For what it's worth, I think the idea for your thread was sound. Maybe try it again but without the DPR-specific aspect, as inaccurate representation of Pentax products stretches far wider than that one site anyway... It comes from multiple websites, magazines, YouTube channels etc. A wider scope would hopefully keep people focused on listing the inaccuracies stated instead of flaming one site and its editor. Just a thought

LensBeginner · 06-13-2018, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by normhead

And then we get them inspiring folks like MJKloski, who require a lot more effort to dispel

The nickname is appropriate, Vladimir Vladimirovič Majakovskij was quite the revolutionary!

---------- Post added 06-13-18 at 09:02 PM ----------

Originally posted by BigMackCam

No worries.

For what it's worth, I think the idea for your thread was sound. Maybe try it again but without the DPR-specific aspect, as inaccurate representation of Pentax products stretches far wider than that one site anyway... It comes from multiple websites, magazines, YouTube channels etc. A wider scope would hopefully keep people focused on listing the inaccuracies stated instead of flaming one site and its editor. Just a thought

That's another Pandora's box...

normhead · 06-13-2018, 12:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by steve_k

If it gets us to 40,000 posts. I'm for it. :-)

Well let's go then.

How about that DPR?

**clickclick** · 06-13-2018, 12:43 PM - **2 Likes**

This is just surreal I don't mean this to be inflammatory or argumentative, but to say that DPR isn't discussed on this site makes me wonder where one has been for the past 3-4 weeks, or is it 6-8 now? I understand that this thread and the recently closed one were attempting to consolidate all misinformation from DPR in one place. But DPR and their reviews and bias have truly been beaten to death since their first posting of the K1-II review. I've basically been offline for a week or so, but my subscription list has a slew of threads to catch up on with DPR related content.

To start compiling a specific thread of negativity from one site/person/entity then begs the question as to when the next "bad guy" is added. Where are we going now? Are we vindictive? Is this how we want to be known? Is this productive? I'm not feeling a bunch of "yes" responses to these questions.

By all means, if future misinformation that is hurtful to the Pentax brand is proliferated, we should do our best to constructively correct the perceptions.

For those truly interested, this site's search function is pretty good.

**UncleVanya** · 06-13-2018, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by clickclick

For those truly interested, this site's search function is pretty good.

And when in doubt the google search option site

entaxforums.com helps.

**RGlasel** · 06-13-2018, 12:50 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by LensBeginner

That's another Pandora's box...

That's a good analogy, it wasn't that there was one giant nasty and evil thing released by Pandora, it was that every possible evil and ailment was released to vex, but not destroy, humankind. Pandora was the first human female created by the Greek gods, to be punishment to mankind for stealing fire, and it was Pandora's "sheer guile, not to be withstood by men" that tempted her to open a large jar or urn (in Hesiod's Works and Days, it is a πίθος, which were used to store wine, oil, grain and dead people). The end result was that "countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full of evils and the sea is full.". I don't know if other photography related websites will quote ancient Greek classics, but the first quote is from Hesiod's Theogany and the second quote is from Works and Days.

Personally, I think the civility, levelheadness and usefulness of this website (PentaxForums) is a rarity, generally speaking the most heavily promoted and commercialized informational websites resemble dumpsters behind the local fast fried chicken and hamburger joint. If you go dumpster diving, it is possible to find something worthwhile, but you have to dig through so much vile, putrid, rancid and malodorous waste to get to it, that you risk endangering your personal health.

jddwoods · 06-13-2018, 01:04 PM - **4 Likes**

The heck with what DPR thinks of Pentax. I am happy with mine. Before I go out and take pictures, this is one more post to get us to the magic 40,000

stevebrot · 06-13-2018, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles.

Not quite...A fair amount of time went by.

I don't see where a running negative critique of another Web site is consistent with the historic flavor and goals of this community. We may not like DPReview's lack of sensitivity towards the obvious wisdom of OUR taste in product, but it is not clear to me why we need to keep a retrospective tally as to their lack of appreciation and insight as well as our indignation at every flaw.

After all, the role of PF as protectors of the flame and defenders of the brand has traditionally been secondary to celebrating our gear, documenting the features and foibles of the various models and products, helping those who are puzzled and/or are needing troubleshooting advice, helping explain technical aspects of photography in general, sharing insights into cool things to do photographically (with or without Pentax gear), and yes, sharing our work with the masses of appreciative fellow forum members.

Of course, what do I know? Time was when people fled DPR's Pentax-oriented forum to find a happier climate here, but perhaps we are seeing a sea change here towards that pole. I have noticed a marked increase in rants (mostly against Ricoh/Pentax), strange complaints bitterly expressed, and a general embracing of the negative here in the last few years. I don't mean that as any kind of personal indictment of you, @enoeske (we both being veterans of sort around here), but just a stronger flavor of anger and resentment in certain of the forums.

Steve

(...there, I said it...do I feel better?...No, I feel quite sad and bereaved...)

06-13-2018, 12:49 PM	#27
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by clickclick For those truly interested, this site's search function is pretty good. And when in doubt the google search option siteentaxforums.com helps.

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06-13-2018, 11:04 AM	#16
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by normhead But if you can find some "socially redeeming importance" I'll be happy to change my mind. If you want to discuss them, it should be on you to correct their devious anti-Pentax slant. Are you willing to do that? That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles. I had someone comment regarding DPR, "Wha...?Reviews are almost always fair and really shine a good light on Pentax. The reason I bought the K5 a while back was because of a DPR review that praised that camera and touted it as the best APSC camera at the time." I tried to list just a few of the ways that they aren't fair and do not shine a good light on Pentax. However, this was up to my memory of recent posts, many of which have been altered or corrected. So, I thought it would be helpful to list the errors and why these were factually incorrect. I do not want a thread of DPR hating or people posting about how they've been banned. It would be a helpful thread. But it was closed almost immediately for no reason.

06-13-2018, 11:12 AM - 2 Likes	#17
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by steve_k If it gets us to 40,000 posts. I'm for it. :-) I'm not. I see a purpose of this project being to put positive energy into this place. There has been way too much negative talk, most of which cannot lead to anything positive.

06-13-2018, 11:22 AM	#18
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by enoeske That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles. I had someone comment regarding DPR, "Wha...?Reviews are almost always fair and really shine a good light on Pentax. The reason I bought the K5 a while back was because of a DPR review that praised that camera and touted it as the best APSC camera at the time." I tried to list just a few of the ways that they aren't fair and do not shine a good light on Pentax. However, this was up to my memory of recent posts, many of which have been altered or corrected. So, I thought it would be helpful to list the errors and why these were factually incorrect. I do not want a thread of DPR hating or people posting about how they've been banned. It would be a helpful thread. But it was closed almost immediately for no reason. The problem with a thread like that (and I've just read it for the first time) is that you'd get a lot more than constructive input on DPR's Pentax-related errors and factual inaccuracies. However well-intentioned its beginnings, I'd hazard a guess that within a page or two, it would evolve into exactly the kind of flaming that @Adam has stated he doesn't want. I suspect that's why my colleague closed the thread, and posted the reason why. The same will happen with this thread if it turns into a DPR flaming exercise

06-13-2018, 11:22 AM - 2 Likes	#19
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by normhead The first goal of evil individuals, is to try and eliminate legitimate dissent. These individuals are so weak, the tiny little bit of power they have has corrupted them. Are you still talking about DPR or rather some well known politician ? Last edited by CarlJF; 06-13-2018 at 03:31 PM.

06-13-2018, 11:28 AM	#20
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by BigMackCam The problem with a thread like that (and I've just read it for the first time) is that you'd get a lot more than constructive input on DPR's Pentax-related errors and factual inaccuracies. However well-intentioned its beginnings, I'd hazard a guess that within a page or two, it would evolve into exactly the kind of flaming that @Adam has stated he doesn't want. I suspect that's why my colleague closed the thread, and posted the reason why. The same will happen with this thread if it turns into a DPR flaming exercise Well, since, in my opinion, it would be a constructive thread, so long as our great members here can remain on topic, and it did not have a single "flaming" post, it would seem that we cannot discuss DPR on this website.

06-13-2018, 11:33 AM - 1 Like	#21
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by enoeske Well, since, in my opinion, it would be a constructive thread, so long as our great members here can remain on topic, and it did not have a single "flaming" post, it would seem that we cannot discuss DPR on this website. No, as Adam and I have already said, we can. But the admins and moderators reserve the right to manage threads and posts as needed Let's leave it there, and see how this thread evolves...

06-13-2018, 11:36 AM	#22
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by BigMackCam No, as Adam and I have already said, we can. But the admins and moderators reserve the right to manage threads and posts as needed Let's leave it there, and see how this thread evolves... Sorry, I am just trying to figure it out. There seems to be conflicting and/or arbitrary rules for threads.

06-13-2018, 11:41 AM - 1 Like	#23
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by enoeske Sorry, I am just trying to figure it out. There seems to be conflicting and/or arbitrary rules for threads. No worries. For what it's worth, I think the idea for your thread was sound. Maybe try it again but without the DPR-specific aspect, as inaccurate representation of Pentax products stretches far wider than that one site anyway... It comes from multiple websites, magazines, YouTube channels etc. A wider scope would hopefully keep people focused on listing the inaccuracies stated instead of flaming one site and its editor. Just a thought

06-13-2018, 12:01 PM	#24
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by normhead And then we get them inspiring folks like MJKloski, who require a lot more effort to dispel The nickname is appropriate, Vladimir Vladimirovič Majakovskij was quite the revolutionary! ---------- Post added 06-13-18 at 09:02 PM ---------- Originally posted by BigMackCam No worries. For what it's worth, I think the idea for your thread was sound. Maybe try it again but without the DPR-specific aspect, as inaccurate representation of Pentax products stretches far wider than that one site anyway... It comes from multiple websites, magazines, YouTube channels etc. A wider scope would hopefully keep people focused on listing the inaccuracies stated instead of flaming one site and its editor. Just a thought That's another Pandora's box...

06-13-2018, 12:28 PM - 1 Like	#25
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by steve_k If it gets us to 40,000 posts. I'm for it. :-) Well let's go then. How about that DPR?

06-13-2018, 12:43 PM - 2 Likes	#26
clickclick Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,903	This is just surreal I don't mean this to be inflammatory or argumentative, but to say that DPR isn't discussed on this site makes me wonder where one has been for the past 3-4 weeks, or is it 6-8 now? I understand that this thread and the recently closed one were attempting to consolidate all misinformation from DPR in one place. But DPR and their reviews and bias have truly been beaten to death since their first posting of the K1-II review. I've basically been offline for a week or so, but my subscription list has a slew of threads to catch up on with DPR related content. To start compiling a specific thread of negativity from one site/person/entity then begs the question as to when the next "bad guy" is added. Where are we going now? Are we vindictive? Is this how we want to be known? Is this productive? I'm not feeling a bunch of "yes" responses to these questions. By all means, if future misinformation that is hurtful to the Pentax brand is proliferated, we should do our best to constructively correct the perceptions. For those truly interested, this site's search function is pretty good.

06-13-2018, 12:50 PM - 1 Like	#28
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	Originally posted by LensBeginner That's another Pandora's box... That's a good analogy, it wasn't that there was one giant nasty and evil thing released by Pandora, it was that every possible evil and ailment was released to vex, but not destroy, humankind. Pandora was the first human female created by the Greek gods, to be punishment to mankind for stealing fire, and it was Pandora's "sheer guile, not to be withstood by men" that tempted her to open a large jar or urn (in Hesiod's Works and Days, it is a πίθος, which were used to store wine, oil, grain and dead people). The end result was that "countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full of evils and the sea is full.". I don't know if other photography related websites will quote ancient Greek classics, but the first quote is from Hesiod's Theogany and the second quote is from Works and Days. Personally, I think the civility, levelheadness and usefulness of this website (PentaxForums) is a rarity, generally speaking the most heavily promoted and commercialized informational websites resemble dumpsters behind the local fast fried chicken and hamburger joint. If you go dumpster diving, it is possible to find something worthwhile, but you have to dig through so much vile, putrid, rancid and malodorous waste to get to it, that you risk endangering your personal health.

06-13-2018, 01:04 PM - 4 Likes	#29
jddwoods Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,035	The heck with what DPR thinks of Pentax. I am happy with mine. Before I go out and take pictures, this is one more post to get us to the magic 40,000

06-13-2018, 01:08 PM	#30
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by enoeske That was the point of my thread. I tried to make a correction in the purpose of the thread, but it was closed when I hit "post". I wanted a list of the errors in DPR articles. Not quite...A fair amount of time went by. I don't see where a running negative critique of another Web site is consistent with the historic flavor and goals of this community. We may not like DPReview's lack of sensitivity towards the obvious wisdom of OUR taste in product, but it is not clear to me why we need to keep a retrospective tally as to their lack of appreciation and insight as well as our indignation at every flaw. After all, the role of PF as protectors of the flame and defenders of the brand has traditionally been secondary to celebrating our gear, documenting the features and foibles of the various models and products, helping those who are puzzled and/or are needing troubleshooting advice, helping explain technical aspects of photography in general, sharing insights into cool things to do photographically (with or without Pentax gear), and yes, sharing our work with the masses of appreciative fellow forum members. Of course, what do I know? Time was when people fled DPR's Pentax-oriented forum to find a happier climate here, but perhaps we are seeing a sea change here towards that pole. I have noticed a marked increase in rants (mostly against Ricoh/Pentax), strange complaints bitterly expressed, and a general embracing of the negative here in the last few years. I don't mean that as any kind of personal indictment of you, @enoeske (we both being veterans of sort around here), but just a stronger flavor of anger and resentment in certain of the forums. Steve (...there, I said it...do I feel better?...No, I feel quite sad and bereaved...)