Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-22-2018, 08:27 AM   #16
Banned




Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,675
The payment time of 30 days is something you can get used to.

On the work....
1 spend half an hour on taking images
2 spend half an hour on sorting out images
3 spend an hour on post processing 8 images.

The payment looks a lot better then.

06-22-2018, 09:54 AM   #17
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
roberrl's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 345
Have you at least presented some kind of invoice or bill to the politician? At least that would document your expectation, maybe the candidate doesn't even know you expect payment.
06-22-2018, 10:46 AM - 1 Like   #18
Veteran Member
Ontarian50's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 530
I don't know whether Australia is any different, but here in Canada, political candidates generally don't pay their bills if they lose.
06-22-2018, 10:53 AM   #19
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,526
QuoteOriginally posted by Billk Quote
There was nothing on paper, which I can see is major mistake number one.

What are some tips for avoiding ever having this done to me again?

Also, do peeps generally ask for a shoot fee paid on the day, followed by payment for each delivered image afterwards?
It depends, but getting anything in writing helps to keep everyone honest....even if it is just in a text or an email. Getting anything in writing helps make it clear between both the client and the photographer what is agreed upon. If they refuse or don't put it in writing, walk away. They will make up excuses like, "What, you don't trust me? I'm insulted." It's standard business practice.

To me, the best compromise is to get paid half in advance when you show up (for your time), and then the balance upon delivery of the images. Even if you trust the client, it's best to demand that you get paid just before sharing the finished work...not after. Think about every other profession. The auto mechanic won't give you the keys until you pay for the repairs; you must pay for your pizza before they hand it to you. If there's tipping involved, that's different.

The only exception for me has been:
a) Government contracts. Generally it pays REALLY well but it can takes 3-6 months to get paid.
b) Producers, agencies, networks, and studios. Many have no ethics and once you turn in the film or the files, you either get burned or it can take years to get paid. I played cat and mouse with one producer for 3 weeks until I was paid to turn in what he wanted. If I didn't withhold giving the photos, I would not have been paid.

06-22-2018, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #20
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 221
While I do not remotely possess the skills to be paid for photography, I've done some consulting in areas where I do have expertise. Like you, I got burned the first time through, and here's what I learned:

1. Get it in writing before any work takes place. A 'free' initial hour to hear the idea and understand the work is not wasted, but if it takes more than an hour to hear about the project potential, to get to the point you can formulate a plan and provide an estimate of services, tell folks up front your hourly rate and that you expect to be paid beyond hour 1.
2. Get the written expectation of work times/locations, deliverables, and transportation costs written down in simple, straight forward terms. Define who is responsible for travel costs, parking fees, and exactly what is expected of you. In the case of photography, I'd start out with a statement like "X number of hours of session time, with XX-XX number of images shot during this time," and then add in line items for sorting and processing, including the hours you believe it will take. (Most people have no idea what happens after the pic is taken, in terms of processing, and couldn't begin to provide a valuation for such.
3. List the costs for your services, including transportation, food (if applicable), and any postage if necessary. Your fees should be broken out into session fee, sorting, processing, and miscellaneous costs (food, travel, required props special to the job, etc.), as well as the timing between invoicing and payment due.
4. Get the responsible parties to sign that they agree to the terms and costs. In this case, the campaign manager and campaign treasurer, as well as the candidate, should sign.

Once you have all this kind of documentation in place, it's clear to all how things should proceed. I might toss in an up-front fee for bigger jobs (or just 30% across the board, up front, if you want to separate the serious from the jokers). And don't make the mistake of underestimating your value. An hour of my consulting time is worth 3x my normal hourly pay rate. Why? Because I'm paying the self-employment tax burden, I'm not guaranteed a full work week, and I'm doing prep/cleanup work "off the clock" for every consulting job. I've had a number of folks turn down consulting proposals. I'm okay with that. I've had a number of very satisfied clients, as well. And on more than one occasion, folks have come to me to clean up a mess created by a bad consultant, or have told me about their awful experiences with cheap consultants they've hired. Self-valuation is a tough process. Don't undervalue yourself.
06-22-2018, 12:10 PM   #21
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 11,025
QuoteOriginally posted by Billk Quote
What are some tips for avoiding ever having this done to me again?
It's easier said than done but only hand over the final photos when you're paid.
06-22-2018, 04:21 PM   #22
Veteran Member
Billk's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 349
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Dericali Quote
If you want to avoid waiting for payment, then just do photography for free, or do paid work for private people who are paying cash and don't need an invoice. Avoid all corporations with professional accountancy practices.

That's because many corporations will have minimum 30 days to make a payment, these are standard terms, normal admin, e.g. Payments need to be signed off by an accounts manager etc. payment cycles at the end of each month.

I would also recommend you don't hassle your friend about what is an entirely normal process for paying a contractor. It sounds like he did you a good favour. He is also likely not in charge of the organisation's accounting and payments.
Good advice.

I thought, beforehand, that I was doing a job for an individual, basically as a private person. Will factor payment times into any future jobs, although I am increasingly thinking I will return to doing photography entirely as a hobby and possibly also stop shooting people entirely.

---------- Post added 06-22-18 at 04:24 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by roberrl Quote
Have you at least presented some kind of invoice or bill to the politician? At least that would document your expectation, maybe the candidate doesn't even know you expect payment.
The invoice was sent to one of his team. I have not received any response.

If they try avoiding payment, I will gladly take it to the media.

---------- Post added 06-22-18 at 04:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The payment time of 30 days is something you can get used to.

On the work....
1 spend half an hour on taking images
2 spend half an hour on sorting out images
3 spend an hour on post processing 8 images.

The payment looks a lot better then.
Good comment Ron.

I would have done that amount of work for the price. I should have delivered that, then said no more.

06-22-2018, 07:39 PM   #23
New Member




Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 12
This is a lesson learned,
Some years back I did a photo shoot for a close friend who was trying to start an online makeup page. You know their over-promoting ways --- This will be regular weekly shoots.---. So I rocked up bag full of lenses and bodies and numerous light stands and reflectors. All was going great through shoot and ended well with lots of good shots of the model with makeup etc.
So I do edits and put photos into a proof layout for my client.
I send the high res jpeg proofs to client with instructions on how to let me know which files she wants for her website. And then I wait....3 months later I see on my facebook news feed my proofs and a caption of -- Had a great time doing photo shoot here are our unedited photos--- I was shocked not only had she not paid me the quoted price she had published my proofs.
My wife and I then found out from another mutual friend my client had asked around for lawyers to see if she didn't have to pay for photos.
2 months later we got paid, $70 over the quoted price and I moved on. In the end she went bust and the online magazine never happened, I learnt alot and implemented an online image hosting page.
I no longer sell dvd's of images instead I allow digital downloads at commercial prices that I think is appropriate for advertising and businesses.
I would recommend looking into online galleries that will actually improve your business and you can be assured that a simple right click won't give your photos away for free.
Good luck
06-23-2018, 12:58 AM   #24
Veteran Member
Billk's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 349
Original Poster
Thank you so much for your great advice everybody.

Fingers crossed I won't have to rely on photography to support my lifestyle as an underpaid public health researcher.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
corporations, days, half, hour, images, mate, payment, payments, people, photo industry, photography, pm, post, shoot
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First paid shoot - child photography - reflections and advice sought pls! wolfiegirl Photographic Industry and Professionals 16 11-12-2016 10:30 PM
Well ... well ... well ... it looks as if the K-1 price war has begun ... Newfie Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 43 06-15-2016 04:09 PM
People My first ever paid shoot alamo5000 Post Your Photos! 10 07-04-2014 06:25 PM
20 things I learnt on my first paid fashion shoot clark Photographic Technique 7 08-19-2010 11:46 AM
Well, Well, Well.... Caboverde1 Welcomes and Introductions 3 11-22-2009 08:21 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:59 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top