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06-27-2018, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Nikons downward spin

It is not only Ricoh who is going slow...

A blogger:
QuoteQuote:
Nikon is currently in a "first cut costs out of everything and then see what product you can still make" mode.

That resulted in a lame D3400 update.
That resulted in a lame D5600 update.
That resulted in what many perceive (mostly incorrectly) to be a lame D7500 update.
That hasn't resulted in an update to the D610.
That hasn't resulted in an update to the D750.
That didn't result in an update to the D500.
That didn't result in an update to the D5.
That has resulted in mirrorless products that have yet to appear.
That resulted in the DL line to be cut before production started.
Nikon has been in a downward spin for the last five years. What Nikon management has done is decide to just control the spin. That doesn't help you stop going downward ;~).

Something's got to give, and the time for that to happen is getting shorter and shorter.
and

QuoteQuote:
The word I get out of Tokyo is that top management is effectively now saying "no" to most anything the Imaging Business prototypes or suggests. They want to see immediate and clear ROI on anything, and there are just too many open variables with clear costs in the path of virtually anything Nikon's camera group might want to put out.
The Silence From Nikon | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

But then slow product cycles are not bad for buyers.

06-27-2018, 11:18 AM   #2
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This is good advice for impatient Pentax users. Sony's release cycle is not that of the rest of the industry. Established companies all seem to be going slowly now. We just notice it more with our brand. Well Ricoh is going very slowly.
06-27-2018, 11:54 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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The style was striking me as unnecessarily pessimistic and excessive, then I read the name of the blogger...
Seriously, slow market, slow cycles, and I see nothing wrong with that.
We, of all people, should be used to the fact that doomsaying might mean absolutely nothing.
06-27-2018, 01:22 PM - 1 Like   #4
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I have never been offered an update for any of my film cameras. They all pretty much support the same features now as when I bought them and the features that are a little clumsy have been left that way. Should I be upset or outraged? Perhaps not. My friends with Fujica film gear haven't seen any updates either.


Steve

06-27-2018, 01:34 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
It is not only Ricoh who is going slow...

The Silence From Nikon | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

But then slow product cycles are not bad for buyers.
Thanks for the link to an article with valuable insight (especially regarding how Nikon is running its business vs. how Thom does)!
06-27-2018, 01:43 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Let's face it, Nikon has some killer products on the market right now. Imagine if the K3ii had the specs of the D500. Imagine if the K-1ii did what the D850 can do.

I know more than a few envious Canon users out there ... "if I didn't have all these Canon mount lenses ...."

But yes, Nikon's silence is a bit deafening. No new bodies in nearly a year. Did Nikon give all its design teams the year off? Not likely.

They're no doubt beavering away at whatever new direction Nikon plans on going, and it seems pretty clear they're determined to crush the Sony mirrorless camp.

This is the lull before the storm.
06-27-2018, 02:15 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
Let's face it, Nikon has some killer products on the market right now. Imagine if the K3ii had the specs of the D500. Imagine if the K-1ii did what the D850 can do.

I know more than a few envious Canon users out there ... "if I didn't have all these Canon mount lenses ...."

But yes, Nikon's silence is a bit deafening. No new bodies in nearly a year. Did Nikon give all its design teams the year off? Not likely.

They're no doubt beavering away at whatever new direction Nikon plans on going, and it seems pretty clear they're determined to crush the Sony mirrorless camp.

This is the lull before the storm.
For Nikon’s sake let’s hope so, but the grounds for such optimism seem dubious. What Thom describes sounds exactly like corporations behave.

06-27-2018, 02:29 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
The style was striking me as unnecessarily pessimistic and excessive, then I read the name of the blogger...
This isn't the first time Thom Hogan has posted his advice on manufacturing cameras to camera manufacturers. IIRC he also advises using a CPL at all times and believes a camera should be evaluated on how good photos taken in P mode look. Whatever one thinks of his photographic skill and style, every time he posts something about business or economics he comes across as a random guy on the Internet trying to get attention. Presumably, a few Nikon employees have a good chuckle every time Thom Hogan has advice on how their employer should conduct its business.
06-27-2018, 03:09 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
Let's face it, Nikon has some killer products on the market right now. Imagine if the K3ii had the specs of the D500. Imagine if the K-1ii did what the D850 can do.
Nikon cameras are very good at autofocus.

But neither that D850 nor the D500 is particularly good at high ISO values .... I've heard that from users, and DxOMark tests show that also. The KP provides much better color fidelity than the D500 does at high ISO values.
06-27-2018, 03:36 PM   #10
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I don't keep up with how camera manufacturers are doing in regards to releasing / updating new bodies and lenses. I remember the film era quite well, getting into serious photography in 1968. Now I could be wrong, but during the film era I don't recall the same kind of rush to the marketplace with new, improved product by camera manufacturers.

Let's see my Pentax S1a which I bought new in '68 had, I think, been out since around '61 or so...no changes. There was the Spotmatic which came out around the mid '60's. The ES (electronic Spotmatic) didn't make it out onto the camera store display shelves (something that doesn't seem to happen for Pentax anymore) until the early '70's.

The Canon F1 came out in '71, then it's replacement the Canon F1n (have I got that right ?) appeared around '77, then the Canon F1 New (have I got that right) came out around 1980-81. So even Canon in these film years wasn't bringing out a flood of professional level (ie; the F1) on a yearly basis.

Nowadays some camera makers seem to bring out new bodies, a couple of times a year. Lenses however are a different thing...back then lenses seemed to come out a couple of times a year.

On one hand camera makers are dealing with slipping sales. Maybe the issue of slipping sales could be...that the makers are bringing out too many new cameras that aren't that 'improved' enough to justify to the consumer buying the new camera, when the old camera does everything the customer wants ?

In this forum we have a number of photographers who are real enthusiasts and want every bit of improvement that say the K1 ii has over the K-1 and are willing to pay for it. But we're the minority, we're labeled Advanced Amateur photographers and really there's not too many of us.

Then there's the the average dad who bought a KX or D3400 a few years ago and just wants to take pictures of his kid playing soccer and leaves the camera on automatic setting anyways.

There's a lot more of them than us.

As far as Joe Average is concerned...the KX/ D3400 takes great pictures and will continue to do so, every time there is a family birthday or soccer game...or high school graduation in a few years. Joe Average has his 'good' camera and as long as it fires up and works, he will not get another camera in the foreseeable future.

So is introducing the latest and greatest at very short intervals...paying off for camera manufacturers? I don't think so and the only customers who care are the advanced amateur class and maybe some working pros.

Maybe that's why there seems to be little profit in the camera making biz these days.
06-27-2018, 04:14 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I don't keep up with how camera manufacturers are doing in regards to releasing / updating new bodies and lenses. I remember the film era quite well, getting into serious photography in 1968. Now I could be wrong, but during the film era I don't recall the same kind of rush to the marketplace with new, improved product by camera manufacturers.

Let's see my Pentax S1a which I bought new in '68 had, I think, been out since around '61 or so...no changes. There was the Spotmatic which came out around the mid '60's. The ES (electronic Spotmatic) didn't make it out onto the camera store display shelves (something that doesn't seem to happen for Pentax anymore) until the early '70's.

The Canon F1 came out in '71, then it's replacement the Canon F1n (have I got that right ?) appeared around '77, then the Canon F1 New (have I got that right) came out around 1980-81. So even Canon in these film years wasn't bringing out a flood of professional level (ie; the F1) on a yearly basis.
If you wanted to upgrade the image you were getting, you could start using a new sensor {film}. These days the utility / variability we got from film is packaged in the body.
06-27-2018, 06:36 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If you wanted to upgrade the image you were getting, you could start using a new sensor {film}. These days the utility / variability we got from film is packaged in the body.
True, but I think that picture quality from modern day sensors is and has been pretty good for a number of years. I still use my old K10D (bought 2007) and the picture quality is excellent. My K5 and K1 make for excellent picture quality. I really don't go over 11 X 14 and that size is rare for me, mostly I'm at 5 X 7 and 8 X 10 with the pictures I develop for wall hangers or albums.

I don't know if my picture sizes are much different from the norm for here in this forum. I can do more things with my K5, than my K10D and more things with my K1, than with my K5...but as far as the quality of picture goes between these three bodies at up to the 8 X 10, possibly the 11 X 14...I'm hard pressed to tell the difference. I can tell the difference, but only because I can usually remember for the most part, where and when I took a particular picture.

Do I need a K5 or a K1, when I have a K10D ? I dunno, probably not. My K5 certainly has advantages over my K5 and I think I could of stayed with the K5 without getting the K1. But I got the K5 and K1 because I simply wanted them. Did I need the 5 and the 1...no I didn't need them...it was want.

So as long as I'm not blowing up pictures to mural size, my K10D would in most instances...suffice. The K10D sensor was and is pretty darn good.
06-27-2018, 06:39 PM   #13
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iPhone killed the consumer market
06-27-2018, 06:48 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
iPhone killed the consumer market
I wonder how much Canikon financial results depended on point-and-shoot cameras
06-27-2018, 06:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I wonder how much Canikon financial results depended on point-and-shoot cameras
I'm sure it wasn't nothing - high margins in the cheap stuff I'm sure
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