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09-05-2018, 12:45 PM - 2 Likes   #1
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So glad Pentax isn't making a mirrorless now!

What's with the FF mirrorless rage all of a sudden? Sony came out with the A7 back in 2013, nearly 5 years ago. They stood alone until suddenly Nikon and Canon released new bodies back to back. Now there are strong rumors of Panasonic wanting to enter the fray. Just wait until Sony comes out with another update that jumps over whatever Panasonic reveals! The market is going to look like one of those first person shooter games where the hero runs around a hellish world blasting zombies and monsters. Where blood and bones splatter on the walls there we'll have batteries and sensors crunching underneath our boots here.


Meanwhile, Pentax just keeps plodding along with their mirrored system. I think that's great. DSLR cameras may be on a decline but FF MILCs are setting up for an implosion. Could Ricoh withstand an implosion? I don't think so. If they do make some sort of mirrorless K-mount body it will be at a point where the market is established enough that they can be a niche product like they are now with their K-1 bodies.

We'll see if the Nikon and Canon offerings provide enough value to the market for people shell out $2k - $3k. Personally, I would say anyone wanting a FF mirrorless is better served with a Sony. It's not perfect but a new, previous generation body is also 1/3 the price!

09-05-2018, 12:54 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
What's with the FF mirrorless rage all of a sudden?
Oh surely you are wrong I mean it is not like anyone has invented a gadget that doubles as a phone and a camera and is taking away sales on an industrial scale from traditional camera manufacturers?

Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus..... ? They cannot all supply MILC to a shrinking market. As I observed in a different thread, Pentax is in a pretty good position at the moment as long as they keep their head below the parapet.
09-05-2018, 12:59 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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Let the big boys slug it out, with canon and Nikon entering the market, Sony is almost certain to be the big loser, sharing a market they previously had all to themselves. But the Pentaxians who wanted mirrorless are long gone, probably never to be seen again.
09-05-2018, 01:17 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Let the big boys slug it out, with canon and Nikon entering the market, Sony is almost certain to be the big loser, sharing a market they previously had all to themselves. But the Pentaxians who wanted mirrorless are long gone, probably never to be seen again.
Not quite. I'd like a mirrorless body to adapt odd lenses. It would keep me out of trouble with my wife who doesn't like it when I carry more than 2 cameras On the other hand, if I have to buy a new camera that will definitely get me into trouble

09-05-2018, 01:19 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Let the big boys slug it out, with canon and Nikon entering the market, Sony is almost certain to be the big loser, sharing a market they previously had all to themselves. But the Pentaxians who wanted mirrorless are long gone, probably never to be seen again.
I think you may be right. Or, at the very least you identified the candidate with the most to lose. Sony is still riding high because they were first but Canon and Nikon are bigger. They can draw a larger and possibly more devoted crowd than Sony. Both Canon and Nikon also have a very well established network and support system for professionals. I don't know if Sony has this. If not then I hope they are working on it! Otherwise, Sony cameras are just gadgets for the well to do enthusiast crowd. On the other hand, how have Fuji, Panasonic, and Olympus managed to thrive in their markets? Do those companies have professional support services like Canon and Nikon?

Canon and Nikon will get their share of market entitlement right off the bat. Sony will fall a bit if not a lot. Olympus, Panasonic, and Fuji may actually gain some market share due to people wanting to switch but make a left turn at the last moment. That would like a halo effect from the mirrorless rush.

@pschlute is right. If Ricoh can keep their head down they won't get caught in the crossfire. They can focus on the GR and value oriented DSLRs built like tanks. One GR model, one current FF model, and two APS models. Ok, fine ... three APS models at most.
09-05-2018, 01:23 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Let the big boys slug it out, with canon and Nikon entering the market, Sony is almost certain to be the big loser, sharing a market they previously had all to themselves. But the Pentaxians who wanted mirrorless are long gone, probably never to be seen again.
I'd buy one, depending on the spec and capbilities. But I'm glad Pentax isn't entering that market. It does a perfectly good job with DSLRs... no need to expose itself to further market risk by entering the MILC arena...
09-05-2018, 01:32 PM - 3 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'd buy one, depending on the spec and capbilities. But I'm glad Pentax isn't entering that market. It does a perfectly good job with DSLRs... no need to expose itself to further market risk by entering the MILC arena...

I'd buy one, but only if the K-mount lenses are compatible. Absolutely no interest to invest into new lenses, just because there's some un-compatible mirrorless camera or change of bayonet.
09-05-2018, 01:39 PM   #8
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Is Panasonic going to need a new lens mount for their offering? I don't pay a lot of attention to them normally.

I don't care that there's a mirror in my cameras or not. I would rather have the most compact FF camera possible and if a mirror helps get me there, cool. Something the size and shape of my Ricoh XR7 for instance.

09-05-2018, 01:46 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
@pschlute is right. If Ricoh can keep their head down they won't get caught in the crossfire. They can focus on the GR and value oriented DSLRs built like tanks. One GR model, one current FF model, and two APS models. Ok, fine ... three APS models at most.
Don't forget medium format!
09-05-2018, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
I'd buy one, but only if the K-mount lenses are compatible. Absolutely no interest to invest into new lenses, just because there's some un-compatible mirrorless camera or change of bayonet.
I should have been clearer...

I'd buy one if it has a short registration distance like Sony E-mount or the new Nikon system, with an AF adapter that works (properly) with both screw-drive and electronic AF K-mount lenses
09-05-2018, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #11
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Can someone educate me on the advantages of mirrorless? I remember when they were first discussed, people were talking about their smaller size, but since the lenses for them are so big, that doesn't really matter. Has Sony mirrorless been so successful because they were mirrorless, or because they had great features? Thanks.
09-05-2018, 02:09 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
Can someone educate me on the advantages of mirrorless? I remember when they were first discussed, people were talking about their smaller size, but since the lenses for them are so big, that doesn't really matter. Has Sony mirrorless been so successful because they were mirrorless, or because they had great features? Thanks.
This article explains the DSLR vs mirrorless advantages and disadvantages pretty well:

Mirrorless vs DSLR Cameras - Which One is Better and Why
09-05-2018, 02:19 PM   #13
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The advantages to me are that most older lenses can be adapted due to the short index, and a fragile, expensive mechanical part is eliminated. Don't get me wrong, I know the manufacturers have the mirror mechanism down pat and they can last hundreds of thousands of cycles between failures. But the advantages of a mirror are slight, the costs are high and I would rather trade that off against either a lower initial cost or more features. This is for my style of photography. I understand that different people have different priorities.
09-05-2018, 02:36 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Neuse River Sailor Quote
The advantages to me are that most older lenses can be adapted due to the short index, and a fragile, expensive mechanical part is eliminated. Don't get me wrong, I know the manufacturers have the mirror mechanism down pat and they can last hundreds of thousands of cycles between failures. But the advantages of a mirror are slight, the costs are high and I would rather trade that off against either a lower initial cost or more features. This is for my style of photography. I understand that different people have different priorities.
But it isn't cheaper. To get a viewfinder to match the K1 would cost $4-5k.

I had a discussion with an acquaintance yesterday. He has a dslr, I think one of the Nikon D500x series, with a lens or two. He asked about mirrorless. The Nikon V whatever is more expensive than what he has.

There are benefits and downsides, depending on the lenses, what you shoot, etc. But to match function isn't cheaper, not by a long shot.
09-05-2018, 02:46 PM - 3 Likes   #15
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There is a discussion in another thread where there are strong opinions that unless Pentax also does this, they are doomed. But, reviews of the Nikon and Canon offerings aren't stellar. An important thing to notice is that both Nikon and Canon offerings introduce a new lens mount. Pentax is built around 40 years of legacy glass and honestly, if I felt like I had to have a FF mirrorless camera and had to start over with lenses anyway, I may as well look at Sony.

Canon and Nikon have long, storied histories of introducing new lens mounts and abandoning their legacy glass or requiring adapters, so maybe their faithful won't care as much.

I also notice that the lenses for those cameras are not small. You can compare a A7 to a K1 on size and that A7 looks pretty compelling, but a K1 with an F 70-210 vs an A7 with a modern equivalent and that size advantage goes away. There's also a matter of cost, factoring in a strategy of which lenses you'll want to acquire to make a kit.

I'm with you guys. If Pentax released their FF Mirrorless camera now, they'd be an also-ran. It's too late. It won't appeal to Pentax dSLR users with a bag full of lenses that won't be compatible and it won't lure people from those other systems.


We've got a K1ii. The K3 is due for an update. The KP is compelling in that smaller, travel camera with a pro-build and image quality field and we have some very solid enthusiast models, all sharing K-Mount.

Give us a new ASP-C flagship, evolve the KP to either be a smaller scale dSLR or drop the viewfinder and make it a K-01 like camera, if you must. It could either have the new ASP-C sensor or FF, but keep K-Mount or it's not Pentax, as far as I am concerned.

Personally, I like optical viewfinders, but that's a preference.
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