Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-16-2018, 03:20 PM   #31
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 12,273
When I think of what features / lack of features make an entry camera and the market the camera is designed for...it can get complicated sometimes. I mentioned my first camera a relatively featureless SLR...the 1960's Pentax S1a...again no internal meter, max shutter speed of 1/500th second...just a basic, albeit rugged 35mm camera...with the standard F 2 , 50 mm Takumar 'normal' lens .

I bought it because I was required to have a 35 mm camera to take 'publishable' (as the boss said) pictures for the publishing company I worked for..when I was fairly fresh out of high school.

I didn't know the first thing about cameras or have much experience with them other than the old Box Brownie at home ...so that would qualify me as entry level. I got the most basic 35mm SLR camera I could find at the time...that would still do the job I was required to do and that camera was the Pentax S1a. If I recall it was about 20 bucks cheaper than the basic Nikon back then.

I bought the camera from a camera section in a large department store. There was an additional unexpected expense...I had to get a hand held light meter...my Sekonic for $ 9.95.

Then, back at the company I worked for, I underwent some brief training on how to load film, advance film, set my meter, focus my lens and off I went...snapping what I hoped were 'publishable' pictures. At first they weren't great, but also weren't bad, thanks to coaching from real pro photographers that worked for the firm.

There I was , an unusual sort...an amateur of the rankest level ....who because of a job requirement...had to learn photography real fast . I would say I was entry level . My camera was the cheapest new SLR that I could find...because that is all I could afford. So the cheapest 'good' camera I could find was definitely at the entry level of the market. I was told to get either a Pentax or a Nikon...nothing else...so I went with the cheapest, as that is what my budget dictated.

As an aside, I paid $ 9 @ month for about 12-13 months before it was mine.

Now if I was a young man in the present day, with these job requirements what would I get ? Probably another entry level DSLR...something along the lines of a Nikon D3400...or it's Canon equivalent....or maybe Pentax equivalent.

11-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #32
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
photolady95's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cruising the forum watching his back
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,712
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When it comes to what camera is what, as far as I can tell people just make up stuff. There were a lot of pros using K-5s. I don't think professional has much to do with the actual camera. That's market speak. A pro camera is the camera with a pro behind it.

Pros don't buy cameras because they are rated pro cameras, they buy the feature set that's good for their work. Amateurs buy pro cameras, for bragging rights. They aren't pros, but they own a pro camera, and they stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
I got my pro status using a K1000. Does that count as a Professional camera? I don't know, I never asked any one to designate whether it was or not. But I'm not an amateur either. So, I guess you could say my K-30, my K-50 and my K-5 are Pro cameras, eh?
11-16-2018, 03:46 PM - 1 Like   #33
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,563
“What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”

― William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet

Quote by William Shakespeare: ?What's in a name? that which we call a rose By ...?

_________________________________________

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
– Margaret Wolfe Hungerford

Margaret Wolfe Hungerford Quotes

_____________________

is it the skill, knowledge and/or experience of the photographer

or

the equipment

that makes one a " professional "



all I know is that I am a newbie, trying to learn and improve

[ boy, do I need to improve ]
11-16-2018, 03:48 PM   #34
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
photolady95's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cruising the forum watching his back
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,712
We, who know, know it's not the equipment entirely, it's the person behind the equipment, Allen.

11-16-2018, 04:29 PM - 2 Likes   #35
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 12,273
A pro is someone who earns their living or part of their living by being a photographer. Not all 'pro's' can afford the latest Leica Rangefinder, Hassleblad, Nikon D5, Canon 1D X Mk. ll, etc. or do any of the aforementioned cameras necessarily do the particular job they need to do...to earn their daily crust.

Earning your living through photography doesn't necessarily mean you, the 'pro' photographer are immensely skilled...but skilled enough to so others are willing to pay for your work.

Nothing more..nothing less.

An entry level camera is the cheapest or near the cheapest model in the line. How much it costs in relation to other camera models in the manufacturer's line to a large part, determines it's status in the pecking order.
11-16-2018, 05:10 PM - 1 Like   #36
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 16,394
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Sure. It's not an entry level car.

But it is an entry level Porsche.
11-17-2018, 12:10 AM - 1 Like   #37
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,526
QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
A pro is someone who earns their living or part of their living by being a photographer. Not all 'pro's' can afford the latest Leica Rangefinder, Hassleblad, Nikon D5, Canon 1D X Mk. ll, etc. or do any of the aforementioned cameras necessarily do the particular job they need to do...to earn their daily crust.
This is a good point. When I was starting my career as a pro, I did have and use entry and midlevel SLRs as a pro. I got the job done just fine with them, but there was a huge perception problem from the client and other non-photographers that lowered my status because of the gear I was using. I was judged more on my gear than the results. It wasn't until I replaced all my cameras for flagships that I began to get respect for my images, although in truth, it was not significantly better than what I was producing with the lower end models.

We animals are biased toward perception. How we dress, what we drive, how we talk, etc. The camera is an extension of the photographer and there is a huge bias towards the top looking gun in the crowd. But one can also argue that someone with a flagship represents commitment to their craft OR conversely an insecurity of their own abilities without technological advantages.

11-17-2018, 12:47 AM   #38
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 12,273
[quote=Alex645;4516734]
---------- Post added 11-17-18 at 01:51 AM ----------

[/COLOR]
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
This is a good point. When I was starting my career as a pro, I did have and use entry and midlevel SLRs as a pro. I got the job done just fine with them, but there was a huge perception problem from the client and other non-photographers that lowered my status because of the gear I was using. I was judged more on my gear than the results. It wasn't until I replaced all my cameras for flagships that I began to get respect for my images, although in truth, it was not significantly better than what I was producing with the lower end models.

We animals are biased toward perception. How we dress, what we drive, how we talk, etc. The camera is an extension of the photographer and there is a huge bias towards the top looking gun in the crowd. But one can also argue that someone with a flagship represents commitment to their craft OR conversely an insecurity of their own abilities without technological advantages.
I agree with you 100 %. Years ago at the publishing company I worked for...I happened to be in the boss' office. Can't recall why, but I was there waiting for him to come in. He had brought in a few of his personal cameras earlier in the day and they were sitting on a table in his office. Naturally I checked them out...didn't handle them...but checked them out visually .

They included...a Linhof , Nikon F and a Rolleiflex TLR. He was going out on a long sweep through a few cities to do some interviews, write some articles, take some photos to accompany the articles for some of the magazines . He was also going to sell an advert or two to some of the interviewees and I think that the camera equipment he had assembled were going to be the tools used both to take photos and to impress the potential clients ...
11-17-2018, 12:58 AM   #39
Banned




Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 9,675
QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Earning your living through photography doesn't necessarily mean you, the 'pro' photographer are immensely skilled...but skilled enough to so others are willing to pay for your work.

Nothing more..nothing less.
Then we have a new 'pro' photographer in our town since a few weeks. In our little postal helpdesk (no post office anymore, but lokated in a cigarette and magazine shop) you can now take your passport image for when you need to renuw your passport or drivers license. He is skilled enough to handle the camera.
11-17-2018, 01:49 AM - 1 Like   #40
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,526
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Sure. It's not an entry level car.

But it is an entry level Porsche.
Imagine the humiliation of getting a base model Koenigsegg or an entry level Lexus

But being a poor snob is just as bad as being a rich one and I suppose some would mock a high end version of an entry level model too.
11-29-2018, 06:35 AM   #41
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 476
My first digital camera, when I converted from film, The Pentax K50, is considered "Entry" level. It has those scene modes, I don't know how they work, I've never used them. I also has that "Auto" mode, don't know how that works either, never used it. Never used the video mode either. I still have it, good packing around in the car camera. Now have a K3 and K1. Guess I passed entering mode.... Now I'm full addiction.
11-29-2018, 07:33 AM - 1 Like   #42
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gump's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,006
Original Poster
As i started this, I feel I deserve some observations. I am in no way suggesting that it is a closed thread. Anyway, OB 1: Words are important and at the same time confusing, misleading, subject to individual definition. You get it. Even if we can, as a group, agree on entry-mid-professional levels, there would be nuances. This does not mean don't do it but expect change, it is inevitable. OB 2: The first assignment I got stuck with in grad school was presenting a "talk" on classification systems. What i learned was that they are tools that fit a certain need/job. A lot of this discussion was a wonderful reminder of this. In archaeology we try to learn something about material culture by looking at attributes. Cameras are great artifacts. All the buttons, internal stuff, screen icons, would lead to classifying each model. Of course, entry, mid, pro, would only be one question and there would be units that would be difficult to "pigeon-hole." The goal is objectivity, at least as best we can. A large part of my original post was probably a result of, academic indoctrination and also, being bombarded by aggressive marketing. I know, shut the media off and go take photos! Anyway, thanks for all the contributions.
12-04-2018, 09:38 AM   #43
Unregistered User
Guest




To me, the classification system wouldn't rely on morphology, but functionality. E.g., I saw where someone was asking whether "silver" lenses would look ok on black bodies; I wouldn't pay extra for a "silver" lens that does exactly the same thing as a black lens. I'd be more worried about end-to-end distortions and such stuff as that.

But I regard my own "entry level camera" as the Kodak Instamatic 100 (the pre-flashcube model) that I got as a Christmas present in 1964 (or thereabouts). My first SLR was a Canon AE-1 (1979). Now, I'm using a K-50 and a K-1. My wife recently bought a Sony point-and-shoot w/12+ mpixels w/pretty good "digital zoom", and she loves it.

If I were recommending a camera to someone who knows nothing of either photography or the physics of light and optics, I'd say, go for the p-a-s, because learning composition is (to me) the most important thing. When that beginner wants more control, then go to a camera that allows complete control over ISO, exposure, and aperture, with a standard, prime 50mm f/1.8 lens (or so). Playing with those parameters while taking pictures is the best way to figure out what's what with photography. Nowadays, depending on whether the beginner wants to be semi-pro or just a talented amateur, I'd recommend an inexpensive K body or Q body (respectively) but choose one way or the other early on because the real value is in the lenses, which one will want to keep and swap from camera to camera as one develops his skills (or as new models come out).
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
advantages, articles, camera, cameras, definition, entry, gear, glass, level, linhof, office, perception, photo industry, photography, photos
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Photographylife just listed the K-70 as second best entry level camera HoutHans Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 5 11-17-2018 04:30 AM
Low cost entry level FF E-mount camera coming ? jogiba Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 16 07-25-2014 02:23 AM
What exactly is an 'Entry Level' Camera? kbace50 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 9 06-13-2013 05:51 PM
Canon 6D - another "entry level" FF camera twitch Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 42 09-22-2012 06:14 AM
TIPA NAMES PENTAX K-x CAMERA BEST ENTRY LEVEL DSLR Adam Homepage & Official Pentax News 3 05-16-2010 06:31 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:37 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top