Film versus digital sales

beholder3 · 12-05-2018, 01:05 AM - **1 Like**

If you take a snapshot camera like the Nikon D500, the estimation is that they sold 33,000 units in one full year (the first one when sales are highest).
Fujifilm sold 3,500,000 instax film cameras in the last half year, expect roundabout 7,000,000 film cameras in one full year.

That is like 212 instax customers per one D500 customer.

And it is still 2 instax customers per one Sony-whatever-digital-camera customer (including all cheap mass market compacts).

And Fujifilm is making twice as much money on film cameras and film than their ILC stuff including lenses. 57 billions of yen per quarter.

Andrea K · 12-05-2018, 01:49 AM

ssssshhhhhhh don't say this too loud!!!

**roberrl** · 12-05-2018, 02:14 AM

But the clue is in the name ...... it's not to do with film versus digital but Instant against time taken to get a physical object from a digital image.

Film used to be slow even when processed at home but now with Instax the opposite is true.

**RobA_Oz** · 12-05-2018, 02:48 AM - **5 Likes**

Hmm. Of course, the Instax is mirrorless...

**BigMackCam** · 12-05-2018, 03:28 AM

In the same way, cell phone digital cameras sell way more than other more advanced hobbyist / professional digital cameras. Cell phones and Fuji Instax cameras have something in common, in that neither is aimed squarely at advanced hobbyist or professional users. They're for casual consumer photography, which could almost be viewed as a seperate market...

**Rondec** · 12-05-2018, 03:43 AM - **1 Like**

They're basically Polaroids. Extremely limited as far as what you can do with them -- way more than 35mm film cameras. Hard to relate them to anything else in the market except apps like snap chat.

The big thing is that they are a cash cow for Fuji and allow them to spend large amounts developing digital mirrorless cameras for the market. If they didn't have the Instax money to play with it would have probably taken them significantly longer to build out their lens line up for their APS-C cameras and I doubt they would have jumped into the medium format market.

beholder3 · 12-05-2018, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

In the same way, cell phone digital cameras sell way more than other more advanced hobbyist / professional digital cameras. Cell phones and Fuji Instax cameras have something in common, in that neither is aimed squarely at advanced hobbyist or professional users. They're for casual consumer photography, which could almost be viewed as a seperate market...

It is as much a horses for courses question as choosing a 300mm lens versus a 24mm lens. That could be called separate markets as well. Market segments can be defined deliberately and whatever name-tag you choose that will be just a personal opinion.

All of that would not mean a thing to the customers or the sales figures.

Photographers today want:
smartphones >> point & shoot compacts > instant film cameras > DSLRs > mirrorless cameras.

That is probably both reason and consequence of the downturn for D-ILC manufacturers.

**BigMackCam** · 12-05-2018, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

It is as much a horses for courses question as choosing a 300mm lens versus a 24mm lens. That could be called separate markets as well. Market segments can be defined deliberately and whatever name-tag you choose that will be just a personal opinion.

I take your point, but a 300mm or 24mm lens are both more likely to be bought by dedicated hobbyist or professional photographers.

Whilst a small number of hobbyist and professional photographers might by an instant film camera, the vast majority will be bought by general consumers. So, whilst Fuji's Instax sales do make up part of the overall photographic market, I think it's a very distinct and separate segment, and quite unrelated to the segment occupied by mirrorless and reflex digital cameras...

**clickclick** · 12-05-2018, 05:29 AM

I think it shows that the casual picture taker doesn't care/know about film versus digitial. They just want to see their picture and have something in hand. How it gets there isn't what's important. It's that they have it.

aaacb · 12-05-2018, 06:11 AM

Instax is not only without a mirror but also medium format

I like mine, it's a nice camera for friends and family photos, often these pictures end up on the fridge or on a desk, instead of at the bottom of some feed.

---------- Post added 12-05-18 at 08:12 AM ----------

Scanning one though is tough, the film itself is very low resolution compared to a high quality print

beholder3 · 12-05-2018, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by aaacb

Instax is not only without a mirror but also medium format

Right.

Compared to the Instax (60x60mm) current 36x24mm ILC have crop factor 2.

timw4mail · 12-05-2018, 07:23 AM

Of course they are making money on Instax film, it's like $1/frame.

The Squirrel Mafia · 12-05-2018, 12:28 PM

A lot of my friends have Instax cameras. The pictures that they spit out are quite ugly, but in a neat, fun, & charming kind of way. The film packs are quite pricey too. They definitely do have fun with them. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon, but I can definitely see their appeal. Sometimes you can't beat an instant pic.

**BigMackCam** · 12-05-2018, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia

A lot of my friends have Instax cameras. The pictures that they spit out are quite ugly, but in a neat, fun, & charming kind of way. The film packs are quite pricey too. They definitely do have fun with them. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon, but I can definitely see their appeal. Sometimes you can't beat an instant pic.

I bought a (*huge*) Fuji Instax 210 when it first came out almost ten years ago, plus three or four packs of film. I think I used it for maybe a couple of weeks, but after I'd burned through the film packs I put it away and it hasn't been used since.

I agree that the photos have what could be described as a neat, fun and charming ugliness. If sticking photos on your fridge or kitchen notice board is your thing, they can be a hoot. But with so many good film and frame / border emulations in software to give that Instax / Polaroid look digitally, using a digital camera just seems to be a whole lot cheaper and easier. I can't see me ever using my Instax again.

Now that we've been talking about this, though, I may just buy a couple of film packs and run them through the 210 to see if I feel any differently about it now. I have my doubts, but who knows...

**ThorSanchez** · 12-05-2018, 01:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by timw4mail

Of course they are making money on Instax film, it's like $1/frame.

I've often thought of getting my elderly uncle an Instax for Christmas. He always had a Polaroid when I was a kid. But he's on very limited Social Security income and it would be hard for him to spend almost $1 a shot.

12-05-2018, 01:05 AM - 1 Like	#1
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Film versus digital sales If you take a snapshot camera like the Nikon D500, the estimation is that they sold 33,000 units in one full year (the first one when sales are highest). Fujifilm sold 3,500,000 instax film cameras in the last half year, expect roundabout 7,000,000 film cameras in one full year. That is like 212 instax customers per one D500 customer. And it is still 2 instax customers per one Sony-whatever-digital-camera customer (including all cheap mass market compacts). And Fujifilm is making twice as much money on film cameras and film than their ILC stuff including lenses. 57 billions of yen per quarter.

12-05-2018, 12:57 PM	#14
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia A lot of my friends have Instax cameras. The pictures that they spit out are quite ugly, but in a neat, fun, & charming kind of way. The film packs are quite pricey too. They definitely do have fun with them. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon, but I can definitely see their appeal. Sometimes you can't beat an instant pic. I bought a (huge) Fuji Instax 210 when it first came out almost ten years ago, plus three or four packs of film. I think I used it for maybe a couple of weeks, but after I'd burned through the film packs I put it away and it hasn't been used since. I agree that the photos have what could be described as a neat, fun and charming ugliness. If sticking photos on your fridge or kitchen notice board is your thing, they can be a hoot. But with so many good film and frame / border emulations in software to give that Instax / Polaroid look digitally, using a digital camera just seems to be a whole lot cheaper and easier. I can't see me ever using my Instax again. Now that we've been talking about this, though, I may just buy a couple of film packs and run them through the 210 to see if I feel any differently about it now. I have my doubts, but who knows... Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-05-2018 at 01:23 PM.

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12-05-2018, 01:49 AM	#2
Andrea K Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 822	ssssshhhhhhh don't say this too loud!!!

12-05-2018, 02:14 AM	#3
roberrl Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 346	But the clue is in the name ...... it's not to do with film versus digital but Instant against time taken to get a physical object from a digital image. Film used to be slow even when processed at home but now with Instax the opposite is true.

12-05-2018, 02:48 AM - 5 Likes	#4
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Hmm. Of course, the Instax is mirrorless...

12-05-2018, 03:28 AM	#5
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	In the same way, cell phone digital cameras sell way more than other more advanced hobbyist / professional digital cameras. Cell phones and Fuji Instax cameras have something in common, in that neither is aimed squarely at advanced hobbyist or professional users. They're for casual consumer photography, which could almost be viewed as a seperate market...

12-05-2018, 03:43 AM - 1 Like	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	They're basically Polaroids. Extremely limited as far as what you can do with them -- way more than 35mm film cameras. Hard to relate them to anything else in the market except apps like snap chat. The big thing is that they are a cash cow for Fuji and allow them to spend large amounts developing digital mirrorless cameras for the market. If they didn't have the Instax money to play with it would have probably taken them significantly longer to build out their lens line up for their APS-C cameras and I doubt they would have jumped into the medium format market.

12-05-2018, 04:53 AM	#7
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam In the same way, cell phone digital cameras sell way more than other more advanced hobbyist / professional digital cameras. Cell phones and Fuji Instax cameras have something in common, in that neither is aimed squarely at advanced hobbyist or professional users. They're for casual consumer photography, which could almost be viewed as a seperate market... It is as much a horses for courses question as choosing a 300mm lens versus a 24mm lens. That could be called separate markets as well. Market segments can be defined deliberately and whatever name-tag you choose that will be just a personal opinion. All of that would not mean a thing to the customers or the sales figures. Photographers today want: smartphones >> point & shoot compacts > instant film cameras > DSLRs > mirrorless cameras. That is probably both reason and consequence of the downturn for D-ILC manufacturers.

12-05-2018, 05:21 AM	#8
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by beholder3 It is as much a horses for courses question as choosing a 300mm lens versus a 24mm lens. That could be called separate markets as well. Market segments can be defined deliberately and whatever name-tag you choose that will be just a personal opinion. I take your point, but a 300mm or 24mm lens are both more likely to be bought by dedicated hobbyist or professional photographers. Whilst a small number of hobbyist and professional photographers might by an instant film camera, the vast majority will be bought by general consumers. So, whilst Fuji's Instax sales do make up part of the overall photographic market, I think it's a very distinct and separate segment, and quite unrelated to the segment occupied by mirrorless and reflex digital cameras...

12-05-2018, 05:29 AM	#9
clickclick Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,904	I think it shows that the casual picture taker doesn't care/know about film versus digitial. They just want to see their picture and have something in hand. How it gets there isn't what's important. It's that they have it.

12-05-2018, 06:11 AM	#10
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,726	Instax is not only without a mirror but also medium format I like mine, it's a nice camera for friends and family photos, often these pictures end up on the fridge or on a desk, instead of at the bottom of some feed. ---------- Post added 12-05-18 at 08:12 AM ---------- Scanning one though is tough, the film itself is very low resolution compared to a high quality print

12-05-2018, 06:53 AM	#11
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by aaacb Instax is not only without a mirror but also medium format Right. Compared to the Instax (60x60mm) current 36x24mm ILC have crop factor 2.

12-05-2018, 07:23 AM	#12
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Of course they are making money on Instax film, it's like $1/frame.

12-05-2018, 12:28 PM	#13
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,057	A lot of my friends have Instax cameras. The pictures that they spit out are quite ugly, but in a neat, fun, & charming kind of way. The film packs are quite pricey too. They definitely do have fun with them. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon, but I can definitely see their appeal. Sometimes you can't beat an instant pic.

12-05-2018, 01:47 PM - 1 Like	#15
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,807	Originally posted by timw4mail Of course they are making money on Instax film, it's like $1/frame. I've often thought of getting my elderly uncle an Instax for Christmas. He always had a Polaroid when I was a kid. But he's on very limited Social Security income and it would be hard for him to spend almost $1 a shot.