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03-07-2019, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobell69 Quote
Olympus Leaving Digital Camera Market?
If a recent WPPI showing by vendors is any indication, Canon booth was dead so was Panasonic and Olympus. I expected Fuji to be busy but the surprise camera was Nikon booth which was mobbed.

Olympus has unbelievable tech and their optics are second to non. However, who wants to commit to M43? Their presenter who was excellent was saying you do not need larger sensors to get the job done but Panasonic just did the opposite. So did Nikon and Canon when it comes to mirrorless.


Last edited by btnapa; 03-07-2019 at 07:52 PM. Reason: typo
03-07-2019, 04:50 PM - 1 Like   #17
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Olympus as a company (or group) is doing well but the Imaging segment (= cameras and lenses -89%- + voice recorders -11%-) is performing poorly since more than a decade.

Sales have been plummeting since 2008. Losses, sometimes significant ones (more than 10% of revenue), were recorded almost each year since FY2009.



ValueAct Capital, a US activist investor / hedge fund has become Olympus's largest shareholder last year with a bit more than 5% of the share capital.

As of the 1st of April, 2019, a new CEO will be appointed: the current CFO, an accountant by education (the current CEO is an engineer). A new director, chosen by ValueAct Capital, will join the board.

At the general shareholders' meeting in June, two new directors will be appointed, at least one of them being from outside the company.

Times are changing.
03-07-2019, 04:56 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
You could also stop using the internet and never be bothered again..?
But then how could BigMackCam find all those used, inexpensive cameras and lenses to buy at bargain prices?
03-07-2019, 05:07 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
If a recent WWPI showing by vendors is any indication, Canon booth was dead so was Panasonic and Olympus. I expected Fuji to be busy but the surprise camera was Nikon booth which was mobbed.

Olympus has unbelievable tech and their optics are second to non. However, who wants to commit to M43? Their presenter who was excellent was saying you do not need larger sensors to get the job done but Panasonic just did the opposite. So di Nikon and Canon when it comes to mirrorless.
Compact bodies and glass are a compelling proposition for some, so long as the image quality is there. In middle age, I've suffered from rheumatoid arthritis that affects my elbows and forearms (other areas too) for the last four years and, whilst it's managed reasonably well with DMARD medication, it's slowly getting worse. I can imagine a time in the not-too-distant future where my full-frame gear might be quite impractical, and even my APS-C gear could be something of a burden. I have a small, light-weight Panasonic bridge camera I bought from my Dad (out of curiosity, and to free up his funds to buy something else) that I already find myself using far more often than expected, simply because it's so darned easy to carry around. Of course, image quality doesn't even begin to compare to my APS-C and full-frame DSLRs. But the size and weight mean I can carry it anywhere, any time, no matter how I'm feeling. As such, despite never having owned or used a micro 4/3 setup, I can see how it might work for me in the future.

But then... Oly's recent announcement of the E-M1X is just confusing to me. Personally, I only see a market for it with those who are already invested in the lenses and want to use them in semi-professional circumstances - whilst, in the process, giving up the size and weight benefits.

03-07-2019, 05:08 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by onlineflyer Quote
But then how could BigMackCam find all those used, inexpensive cameras and lenses to buy at bargain prices?
Exactly
03-07-2019, 05:19 PM - 2 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Compact bodies and glass are a compelling proposition for some, so long as the image quality is there. (...)
Both lenses below are 50mm f/1.4 with short backfocus. Times change...

Photography ©Richard Wong

03-07-2019, 05:37 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Both lenses below are 50mm f/1.4 with short backfocus. Times change...
For sure.

I'm not saying that every combination of micro 4/3 camera and lens offers the size and weight benefits I mentioned. But some do... in the same way that my APS-C K-3 and relatively-slow DA Limited lenses offer a size and weight benefit over the K-1 and faster, better corrected lenses such as the DA*50/1.4.

Here's the thing... I love my Sony A99-based Hasselblad HV (for a variety of reasons) and its factory-chosen Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 SSM lens. But I'm more likely to go shooting with my K-3 and Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 because of the size and weight, even though that Zeiss lens is optically superior and, on full-frame, gives me a field-of-view + depth-of-field advantage.

For my use-case and evolving practicalities, I can see an argument for the continuation of micro 4/3, unless something else steps in to offer the same or better image quality and potential size / weight benefits...

I will also say, I would kick and scream like a child mid-tantrum before I'd stop using my existing gear. But if and when it should become impractical, I'd have to look at other options... Thank goodness I also have my Q and Q7

03-07-2019, 06:07 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
There are times when I think the best strategy is to buy into an obsolete system from a company that no longer produces photography equipment. The benefits are compelling... No fretting over what products should or could be released and when, no navel-gazing over financials and what direction the company will take next, no heated "grass is greener" debates with folks who prefer other brands. Just buy the camera and a brace of compatible lenses (all used and inexpensive) then get out and shoot, without any of the fuss and worries.

I'm only partly joking...
Hear! Hear!

Sure, there was a time when digital cameras really did go obsolete. Each new model had substantially higher resolution, substantially lower noise, and obvious enhancements to features (live view, pixel shift, astrotracer, etc.). It made sense to pick a maker with a future and join upgrade merry-go-round. However, not only are those years of rapid advancement over, but there really isn't that much room for advancement on key IQ dimensions.

Today's cameras and the splendid images they create won't suddenly self-destruct when Canikony launch next-year's new camera. Old cameras and lenses do everything they could do when they were new and that's a lot!

The current "grass is greener" debates ignore the simple fact that all the grass from all today's makers is extremely green right now. Why waste money on the upgrade bandwagon? If it's possible to buy some of the green green grass for less money because the frantic FOMO (Fear-Of-Missing-Out) folk only want to buy cameras with a "future" (rather than cameras with good performance), then why not take advantage of yesterday's great gear?
03-07-2019, 06:23 PM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Hear! Hear!

Sure, there was a time when digital cameras really did go obsolete. Each new model had substantially higher resolution, substantially lower noise, and obvious enhancements to features (live view, pixel shift, astrotracer, etc.). It made sense to pick a maker with a future and join upgrade merry-go-round. However, not only are those years of rapid advancement over, but there really isn't that much room for advancement on key IQ dimensions.

Today's cameras and the splendid images they create won't suddenly self-destruct when Canikony launch next-year's new camera. Old cameras and lenses do everything they could do when they were new and that's a lot!

The current "grass is greener" debates ignore the simple fact that all the grass from all today's makers is extremely green right now. Why waste money on the upgrade bandwagon? If it's possible to buy some of the green green grass for less money because the frantic FOMO (Fear-Of-Missing-Out) folk only want to buy cameras with a "future" (rather than cameras with good performance), then why not take advantage of yesterday's great gear?
Exactly! Thank you

As is so often the case, I believe you've read my post exactly how it was intended... I'm not really saying everyone should go out and buy old, truly obsolete kit (though there's nothing wrong in doing so if it suits one's needs). Rather, I'm saying that existing and often older kit does everything most people really need. There's a troubling tendency for folks to seek, chase and worry over the "next big thing", when they just don't need it. Knowledge and technique would be far more valuable than yet another $1,000 - $2,000 camera plus lenses
03-07-2019, 06:29 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
in the same way that my APS-C K-3 and relatively-slow DA Limited lenses offer a size and weight benefit over the K-1 and faster, better corrected lenses such as the DA*50/1.4.
My daughter thought my K-30 and DA 18-135 combo was too big and heavy, so she bought an OM D E-5 II and ED 14-150mm f/4-5.6, both in silver. It lags behind my K-30 in low light and I don't like the EVF, but compared to a Q, it is pretty impressive. You would only look slightly more ridiculous with an Oly in your pocket than a Q and you don't need a hood to compose shots. Not to mention a much better selection of lenses that don't require an adapter.

P.S. The Olympus kit is also WR.
03-07-2019, 07:47 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Both lenses below are 50mm f/1.4 with short backfocus. Times change...

Photography ©Richard Wong
Very clear example of how things have changed.

I look at my relatively tiny ancient Leitz collapsible 50 mm F 3.5 lens and particularly when it is attached to my equally, relatively tiny Leica llf body...this combo is very small, very handy to carry in a jacket pocket and of course it's a 35mm camera...full frame I suppose, if it was digital.

Of course I have to carry around my Sekonic Studio Master light meter, which almost as big as the camera...so that kind of loses the advantage the small camera, but then on the other hand, I've got an old, smaller Sekonic meter that takes up very little space.

Full frame digital...small, very robust body, small lens...mirrorless, pocketable (large jacket pocket)...AF and maybe a moderate wide angle to 250mm or so, zoom. Also affordable. Lot's of appeal for an older guy who is starting to think, size does matter...small size, less weight, easy to carry. Maybe there will be something out in a 5 years or so. I like my K1/28-105 but....
03-07-2019, 08:00 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
But then... Oly's recent announcement of the E-M1X is just confusing to me.
Me too. The camera is quite hefty. It negates all the m43 advantages. I am beginning to have joint problems myself. So I am looking to go lighter too. I love my K1 but the camera and a bag full of large zoom lenses is getting to be too much to carry around. The Olympus smaller bodies felt great in size and buttery smooth shutter. The one I tried had the quietest shutter I have ever heard. It was nearly silent. The presenter showed some tricks that only Olympus can do. It was nice but it is a long way from making me sell my Pentax gear at quite a loss and reinvest in Olympus gear which is not exactly cheap.
03-07-2019, 10:54 PM   #28
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Last year due to financial setbacks, I sold most of my Pentax full frame gear and kept my 645Z kit. Health issues forced me to let the 645Z go in favor of a lighter used Nikon D850. When the Nikon Z7 came out, I rented one and liked it enough that I sold the D850 in favor of a used Z7. It was a good thing because I recently had a heart attack which I am still recovering from. As a long time Pentaxian, who loved the K-1, I can honestly say that the Z7 is the most Pentax like camera I have handled from an ergonomic and image quality (and many would say autofocus performance lol) standpoint. I am able to carry it with a 24-70mm lens in a small sling bag. I am not surprised that Nikon was getting a lot of attention at the trade show. I still love Pentax cameras and lenses. I am in a holding pattern on picking up a used K-1 until I know how much weight I will be able to schlepp post rehab.
03-08-2019, 04:14 AM - 3 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Compact bodies and glass are a compelling proposition for some, so long as the image quality is there. In middle age, I've suffered from rheumatoid arthritis that affects my elbows and forearms (other areas too) for the last four years and, whilst it's managed reasonably well with DMARD medication, it's slowly getting worse. I can imagine a time in the not-too-distant future where my full-frame gear might be quite impractical, and even my APS-C gear could be something of a burden. I have a small, light-weight Panasonic bridge camera I bought from my Dad (out of curiosity, and to free up his funds to buy something else) that I already find myself using far more often than expected, simply because it's so darned easy to carry around. Of course, image quality doesn't even begin to compare to my APS-C and full-frame DSLRs. But the size and weight mean I can carry it anywhere, any time, no matter how I'm feeling. As such, despite never having owned or used a micro 4/3 setup, I can see how it might work for me in the future.

But then... Oly's recent announcement of the E-M1X is just confusing to me. Personally, I only see a market for it with those who are already invested in the lenses and want to use them in semi-professional circumstances - whilst, in the process, giving up the size and weight benefits.
The E-M1X almost feels like an act of desperation. I know you can always churn out cameras with a little faster frame rates or maybe higher iso or 8K video, but it feels as though we are reaching a bit of a dead end. Camera brands are going to have customers replacing their cameras when they need to (something breaks on them), not because there is some new feature that their current camera doesn't have. In that situation, you hope you have a strong enough user base to keep your factories operating, even if they aren't going at full capacity.

Canon and Nikon hope to beat that trend by releasing new mirrorless cameras and lenses to go with them. That may stave things off for a bit, but eventually they are going to be at that same place. Olympus is already mirrorless. The only thing they could do would be to add another sensor size.

I guess the thing is that current cameras are so good that incremental improvements in them don't make a difference and I can't honestly say that still image quality has changed significantly over time -- it feels like you would have a hard time telling the difference between an image captured with a D800 and a D850.
03-08-2019, 04:44 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
(...)

Canon and Nikon hope to beat that trend by releasing new mirrorless cameras and lenses to go with them. That may stave things off for a bit, but eventually they are going to be at that same place. Olympus is already mirrorless. The only thing they could do would be to add another sensor size.

(...).
...which Panasonic, which are mirrorless too, just did. And Sony (24x36) and Fujifilm (33x44) before them. Ricoh Imaging too, to some extent, with the Pentax 645D, Q and eventually K-1. Same with Leica (S, TL, SL in addition to M). Samsung chose to throw in the towel.
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