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05-15-2019, 04:56 PM   #121
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I quite liked my EM1 and lenses while I had it. Mft is a fun system, and I definitely miss it while traveling. But I enjoy working with K-1 files to much to go back to mft ones.



05-15-2019, 04:57 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Olympus is profitable,its been said Fuji doesnt make profit from their hardware and the film stuff props it up(?)I dont know if thats correct but @Mistral probably could confirm that.

This time next year,the financials will drop again.I wont get the "Olympus is Doomed" Tshirts printed till then.
I think Oly is profitable for the same reason Pentax managed to stay profitable for far longer than their camera division, and that is medical equipment.
I have a hard time believing that film could prop up any company these days, but Fuji is into a lot more stuff than digital imaging. They do still sell mini labs, and that might still be a moneymaker.
05-15-2019, 04:58 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
They might just be hedging their bets....
Its herd mentality!
05-15-2019, 05:07 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Not recently but as the Oly people have been saying for a long time,Imaging contributes to the profit from the other arms of the group.
Right, but as I and others mentioned before, does it contribute enough to justify it continue as a distinct entity, as opposed to carving out the R&D element and incorporating it directly in the profit-making divisions?

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
If a human injures an arm,we try and heal it.If its beyond healing then?...Olympus are not in panic mode,just going through the aftermath of closing the Chinese factory.
The current scenario isn't in the same league as the fraud, when they certainly should have been panicking. So, like you, I don't believe Olympus is (or should be) in panic mode right now... but I don't completely discount the possibility that thoughtful and rational commercial review might suggest that the imaging division isn't likely to leap back into profitability without something special. The E-M1X appeared to be the intended "something special", but isn't exactly the darling of internet opinion. Hopefully, its fortunes will turn around, or Olympus has something else and more attractive up its sleeve...

05-15-2019, 05:53 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Its herd mentality!
Therein lies the problem for Olympus. The herd appears to be moving to larger sensors to give them some space between them and smartphone cameras.
05-15-2019, 05:56 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
The E-M1X appeared to be the intended "something special", but isn't exactly the darling of internet opinion.
Its only the best stabilised and sealed "pro" body on the market.

"Internet Opinion"...ha ha,whats that?....tall poppy syndrome.

It fills a niche in M43,its aimed at Pros.Plenty of enthusiasts have bought it.


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Right, but as I and others mentioned before, does it contribute enough to justify it continue as a distinct entity, as opposed to carving out the R&D element and incorporating it directly in the profit-making divisions?
Well with all the past and present Oly management people saying and repeating that Imaging Divisiion contributes,what can you conclude?

The Wolf of Wall road hasnt visited Oly HQ yet!

---------- Post added 05-16-19 at 12:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The herd appears to be moving to larger sensors to give them some space between them and smartphone cameras.
I dont think so,the recent CaNik released stuff was a defensive move in a business sense.If they didnt provide something for their client base to consider then $$$ony would have taken much more than they have.

As far as Panasonic goes,its HIGH priced gear and only time will tell whether it'll be competitive.
05-15-2019, 10:28 PM - 1 Like   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
(...)

The short term plan of Olympus is to try and break even this financial year. (...)
The short term plan of Olympus is the Imaging segment to still loose 7bn ($64m) this financial year FY2020 (Olympus themselves are profitable) and to reach break even sometimes during the second half of FY2020.

Unfortunately Olympus have been (over)optimistic year after year during the past decade. Just compare their forecasts for the Imaging segment and the actual figures.


(there was no forecast for FY2012 because of the earthquake and tsunami of 11 March 2011.)
05-15-2019, 10:51 PM - 1 Like   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Olympus is profitable,its been said Fuji doesnt make profit from their hardware and the film stuff props it up(?)I dont know if thats correct but @Mistral probably could confirm that.

(...)
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Olympus Group is profitable... but is the imaging division - the one that makes consumer cameras and lenses? I thought that's where we got into this discussion
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
(...)
I have a hard time believing that film could prop up any company these days, but Fuji is into a lot more stuff than digital imaging. They do still sell mini labs, and that might still be a moneymaker.
As a group, Olympus is profitable but the Imaging segment is bleeding money: they have made 93bn in losses in the last 11 years (FY2009-FY2019, positive income of FY2010 and FY2017 deducted).

At the current /$ exchange rate, that represents a total loss of $850 million.

Fujifilm Holdings Corp. are profitable: operating income, income before income taxes and net income achieved a record high in FY2019/3. Their Imaging Solutions segment is neatly profitable too: 51.1bn in operating income, 13.2% of sales.

Imaging Solutions includes three subsegments:
  • Photo Imaging (66.6% of the segment's sales): instant cameras and films (Instax brand), colour films, colour paper, on-demand printing services and equipment
  • Electronic Imaging (23.4% of the segment's sales): digital cameras and lenses
  • Optical Devices (10% of the segment's sales): industrial lenses such as vehicle-mounted lenses, projection equipment

The Instax system is highly profitable and boosts the profitability of Imaging Solutions. The accumulated sales volume of the instax cameras totalled 10 million units in FY2019/3; 2.3 million units were sold during FY2019/3.


Last edited by Mistral75; 05-15-2019 at 10:56 PM.
05-15-2019, 11:08 PM - 2 Likes   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
(...) as the Oly people have been saying for a long time,Imaging contributes to the profit from the other arms of the group.

(...)
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Right, but as I and others mentioned before, does it contribute enough to justify it continue as a distinct entity, as opposed to carving out the R&D element and incorporating it directly in the profit-making divisions?

(...)
Olympus publish R&D expenditures by business segment: Imaging R&D now represents only 4.4% of Olympus total R&D. It was 16% in FY2013, six years ago, and 30% in the late 2000s.

The change doesn't prevent Olympus executives to keep on singing the same song over and over.

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
(...)

Well with all the past and present Oly management people saying and repeating that Imaging Divisiion contributes,what can you conclude?

(...)
That one shouldn't confuse communication and reality.

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
(...)

The Wolf of Wall road hasnt visited Oly HQ yet!

(...)
It did last year when ValueAct Capital became the first shareholder and came back this year to demand and obtain three seats at the board of directors.

Last edited by Mistral75; 05-15-2019 at 11:15 PM.
05-16-2019, 12:22 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The Instax system is highly profitable and boosts the profitability of Imaging Solutions.
Or hide a loss?
Do you know if Fujifilm's ILCs are making a profit?
05-16-2019, 12:37 AM   #131
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Those Olympus figures are pretty sobering - not just the over-optimistic forecasting, but the decline in 10years of revenue - even if the losses haven't fallen commensurately that in itself signifies a much smaller base to regrow from, even if that were possible.
05-16-2019, 01:43 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
1919: 旭光学工業合資会社 = Asahi Kōgaku Kōgyō Goshi-gaisha
1938: 旭光学工業株式会社 = Asahi Kōgaku Kōgyō Kabushiki-gaisha
That's why Pentax is so attractive to me
05-16-2019, 01:43 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Or hide a loss?
Do you know if Fujifilm's ILCs are making a profit?
At sub-segment level (such as Electronic Imaging = compact cameras, ILCs and their lenses), they only comment on sales, not operating income.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fujifilm:
In the electronic imaging business, sales were strong for FUJIFILM X-T3, which has high-speed, high-precision auto focus function and high video function, and FUJIFILM X-T30, which has a small and light body with high performances, launched in March 2019. FUJIFILM GFX 50R, a medium format mirrorless digital camera, showed strong sales reflecting good reviews on its ultra-high image quality incorporating a large sensor and its adoption of range finder style. As a result, overall revenue of mirrorless digital cameras increased from the previous fiscal year despite the downward trend in the digital camera market in the fiscal year 2018. The sales of interchangeable lenses also increased accordingly.

At segment level, they increased their operating income forecast for Imaging Solutions for FY2020/3 in comparison to the previous forecast.
05-16-2019, 02:39 AM - 1 Like   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Its only the best stabilised and sealed "pro" body on the market.

"Internet Opinion"...ha ha,whats that?....tall poppy syndrome.

It fills a niche in M43,its aimed at Pros.Plenty of enthusiasts have bought it.




Well with all the past and present Oly management people saying and repeating that Imaging Divisiion contributes,what can you conclude?

The Wolf of Wall road hasnt visited Oly HQ yet!

---------- Post added 05-16-19 at 12:03 PM ----------



I dont think so,the recent CaNik released stuff was a defensive move in a business sense.If they didnt provide something for their client base to consider then $$$ony would have taken much more than they have.

As far as Panasonic goes,its HIGH priced gear and only time will tell whether it'll be competitive.
Olympus is just in a tough position. I don't know many professionals who use Olympus. I know there are a few and most of the ones I read about seem to be hired guns, but they've hitched their wagon to the micro four thirds format and they've taken it about as far as you can take it. They have tough, small cameras with excellent image quality (although the EM1x isn't exactly small), they have excellent lenses. But I think the micro four thirds market is drying up, particularly on the high end of things.

In a market where you can get stabilized full frame MILCs in the 1000-1200 dollar range it is going to be harder and harder to sell micro four thirds cameras for 3000 or even 1500 dollars, even if the specs are good. Falconeye predicted on this Forum five or six years ago that smaller sensors were going to get squeezed as larger sensors got cheaper. It isn't that crop sensors will go away -- they won't -- but that it is going to be harder to sell those cameras for higher prices. And that could make it really hard for Olympus to turn things around, regardless of their rosy forecasts.
05-16-2019, 04:23 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
That's why Pentax is so attractive to me
You should go to Japan and make business there: 会社 (gaisha or kaisha) means company. Not to be confused with 芸者 (geisha)!
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