[biz-engineer]

My bad. I should have expanded on the thought in my post. Sales do not equal profit, of course. But low sales and high profit mostly applies to high end luxury brands like Ferrari, Hasselblad and Leica. I don't think that Pentax is in such an enviable position.

In years 2000, internet was going to revolutionize promotion and sales, there were a number of business booked that announced de-intermediation of traditional retailing (I remember having read a book about it, and it all made sense at the time). For Pentax, it was decided to promote and sell essentially primarily via online channels, and distribution via physical stored as a second priority. In theory, retail was going to take on > 80% of sales, in practice that happened a lot slower than planned. My understanding is that Pentax saved a lot of money by going mainly online, but they also lost some market share due to physical store => online transition being slower and not total, unlike what business theorists had claimed. But today, I guess if Pentax was able to release the K1, it is because they were able to leverage online marketing, this is where your assumption of low volumes make low profits isn't fully correct. In 2019, you can be a startup with 10 employees and have your product(s) visible and sold world wide without involving the fixed costs of physical distribution channels.

---------- Post added 21-04-19 at 11:10 ----------

About the future value of camera equipment these days: Pentax isn't is worse situation than Canon or Nikon. Canon announced their EOS R line, Nikon announced their Z line, both involve a new lens mount, and accelerated obsolescence of all previous DSLR product lines. As of 2019, a Pentax user having a lineup of K mount lenses, isn't more alienated than a Canon or Nikon user having a full lineup of DSLR lenses. The difference between Pentax and Canon/Nikon is: with Pentax you don't know what they going to do, whereas with Canon and Nikon you know for 100% that your Canon/Nikon DSLR kits are end-of-life.

You could be Canikon user and rejoice that Canon/Nikon make your DSLR kits obsolete by releasing a new lenses mount (most Canikon users rejoice?), it'd be like saying "Oh I'm so happy that my camera brand made my camera kit value go down to zero in less than a year", it would be dumb to think so.

---

Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-21-2019 at 02:16 AM.

[stevebrot]

The difference between Pentax and Canon/Nikon is: with Pentax you don't know what they going to do, whereas with Canon and Nikon you know for 100% that your Canon/Nikon DSLR kits are end-of-life.

Hmmmm...if that is the case, then it is likely that it is EOL for Nikon as well.


Steve

[lytrytyr]

The difference between Pentax and Canon/Nikon is: with Pentax you don't know what they going to do, whereas with Canon and Nikon you know for 100% that your Canon/Nikon DSLR kits are end-of-life.

With Pentax, in your terms, I know for 99% that my Pentax Q kits are "end-of-life".

But in practice, I continue to find them really useful for jobs that no other system can handle.

[BigMackCam]

While the new Pentax APS-C flagship might generate a lot of excitement around here; I doubt that it will with the non-Pentaxian masses out there, UNLESS: 1) the new flagship is significantly lighter and/or 2) it contains some revolutionary wiz-bang new feature.

I hear of older serous photographers (like most of us) regularly switching to lighter cameras because of their physical limitations. The full frame Sony A7III and the full frame Nikon Z6 are very close in weight to the Pentax KP camera (640 grams). If you are a serious photographer who's getting older (many of whom weight is more important than price) and weight is critical, which camera would you rather have? Me, I'd go the the full frame camera over the APS-C given similar weights.

I think the new Pentax APS-C's weight is critical. I dumped my K-3 (and K3ii) for a slim/light Fuji APS-C X-T2 and saved a whopping 210 grams (much more if you include the battery and grip). Pentax, slim down your new flagship APS-C body and you'll sell more cameras.

That's an interesting view-point, Dave. I can certainly see the attraction with the X-T2 - a very nice camera, from what I've read.

I'm counting down the days to my 50th birthday, so - whilst not exactly youthful any more - I'm not so old just yet... BUT, for the last few years I've been dealing with the earlier stages of rheumatoid arthritis which affects my hands, elbows, hips and tendons. You'd think lighter kit would be preferable to me, but I find myself occupying and preferring a middle ground... I have my full-frame Sony A7 MkII which, if I take off the battery grip, is compact and light-weight. I use it for shooting mostly adapted prime lenses, and I enjoy it a great deal. At the heavy end of the scale, I have my full-frame Hasselblad HV (a Sony A99 re-clothed in a heavier duty body). With a 24-70 f/2.8 or 70-200 f/2.8 fitted, it's just too heavy for me to carry around for extended periods of time... and if I have the battery grip fitted, there's no way I'm carrying it for more than an hour or two at most. But in the middle, I have my APS-C K-3 and K-3II, or my Samsung GX-10 (K10D). I have big hands, so the size of these cameras is perfect for me, while the weight of the body makes for a nicely balanced setup with anything from the DA Limited primes to larger zooms like my DA*60-250. I find that I don't fit the battery grips to my DSLRs as often as I used to, though, because of the extra weight.

So, for the K-3II replacement I'm hoping Ricoh sticks to a similar form factor and weight. I've tried a KP and liked it, but personally prefer the size of the K-3 series.

When all's said and done, it's all about personal preferences...

[stevebrot]

So, for the K-3II replacement I'm hoping Ricoh sticks to a similar form factor and weight. I've tried a KP and liked it, but personally prefer the size of the K-3 series.

Me too and for much the same reasons (large hands and some loss of function in my right shoulder...artificial joint).


Steve

[Larrymc]

I think the new Pentax APS-C's weight is critical. I dumped my K-3 (and K3ii) for a slim/light Fuji APS-C X-T2 and saved a whopping 210 grams (much more if you include the battery and grip). Pentax, slim down your new flagship APS-C body and you'll sell more cameras.

Wow, a whopping 210 grams according to my handy dandy grams to pounds converter that's a whopping 7.40753 ounces or 0.462971 pounds or 0.000231485 U.S. Tons, a 20 ounce bottle of water must be a real burden for us old folks.....NOT. I'm nearly 73 and not a big guy, about 5'6 and 130 pounds and my K-3 is no burden to carry much of the day even with my 70-200 Tamron attached. I just don't see the crushing need for the next high spec APS-C Pentax DSLR to be a feather weight. In my opinion they should be working on improving the short comings of the present K-3/K-3II system and not trying downsize a well thought out camera body.

The above is the sole opinion of Larrymc and in no way reflects the opinion of the Pentax shooting public at large and is solely Larrymc's opinion

[Trickortreat]

While the new Pentax APS-C flagship might generate a lot of excitement around here; I doubt that it will with the non-Pentaxian masses out there, UNLESS: 1) the new flagship is significantly lighter and/or 2) it contains some revolutionary wiz-bang new feature.

I hear of older serous photographers (like most of us) regularly switching to lighter cameras because of their physical limitations. The full frame Sony A7III and the full frame Nikon Z6 are very close in weight to the Pentax KP camera (640 grams). If you are a serious photographer who's getting older (many of whom weight is more important than price) and weight is critical, which camera would you rather have? Me, I'd go the the full frame camera over the APS-C given similar weights.

I think the new Pentax APS-C's weight is critical. I dumped my K-3 (and K3ii) for a slim/light Fuji APS-C X-T2 and saved a whopping 210 grams (much more if you include the battery and grip). Pentax, slim down your new flagship APS-C body and you'll sell more cameras.

Pentax should aim to make all cameras lighter not only flagships.
No one is going to buy heavy entry level cameras.

[Rondec]

Wow, a whopping 210 grams according to my handy dandy grams to pounds converter that's a whopping 7.40753 ounces or 0.462971 pounds or 0.000231485 U.S. Tons, a 20 ounce bottle of water must be a real burden for us old folks.....NOT. I'm nearly 73 and not a big guy, about 5'6 and 130 pounds and my K-3 is no burden to carry much of the day even with my 70-200 Tamron attached. I just don't see the crushing need for the next high spec APS-C Pentax DSLR to be a feather weight. In my opinion they should be working on improving the short comings of the present K-3/K-3II system and not trying downsize a well thought out camera body.

The above is the sole opinion of Larrymc and in no way reflects the opinion of the Pentax shooting public at large and is solely Larrymc's opinion

I'm not sure I totally understand it either. There are 107 grams difference between the KP (without grip) and XT-2 (without grip). Weight has to do with materials used to make something as well as its size. The KS-1 weighed 560 grams which is less than any of the cameras mentioned, but it isn't the most comfortable to use. Ergonomics depend on having a size that comfortably fits in the hand and something that is too small won't fit that bill and probably won't be as easy to access functions via buttons that require menu diving on another camera.

---------- Post added 04-21-19 at 04:20 PM ----------

While the new Pentax APS-C flagship might generate a lot of excitement around here; I doubt that it will with the non-Pentaxian masses out there, UNLESS: 1) the new flagship is significantly lighter and/or 2) it contains some revolutionary wiz-bang new feature.

I hear of older serous photographers (like most of us) regularly switching to lighter cameras because of their physical limitations. The full frame Sony A7III and the full frame Nikon Z6 are very close in weight to the Pentax KP camera (640 grams). If you are a serious photographer who's getting older (many of whom weight is more important than price) and weight is critical, which camera would you rather have? Me, I'd go the the full frame camera over the APS-C given similar weights.

I think the new Pentax APS-C's weight is critical. I dumped my K-3 (and K3ii) for a slim/light Fuji APS-C X-T2 and saved a whopping 210 grams (much more if you include the battery and grip). Pentax, slim down your new flagship APS-C body and you'll sell more cameras.

Why mention the grip at all? The XT-2 weighs 850 grams with a battery grip and honestly, I would think you'd be more likely to need one with the XT-2 since the CIPA shot number per battery is 340 for it versus 720 for the K3 II battery. That's about double the shots, so by all accounts, if you want the same number of shots, you should at least include an extra battery into your weight equation.

[Trickortreat]

The KS-1 weighed 560 grams which is less than any of the cameras mentioned, but it isn't the most comfortable to use. Ergonomics depend on having a size that comfortably fits in the hand and something that is too small won't fit that bill and probably won't be as easy to access functions via buttons that require menu diving on another camera.

Dunno... i find K-S1 quite enjoyable to use... As for size of my hand - i can hold a basketball with it.

[Rondec]

Dunno... i find K-S1 quite enjoyable to use... As for size of my hand - i can hold a basketball with it.

Depends on what you are shooting with it. I shoot a lot with the DA *zooms and they aren't very comfortable with it. It also isn't as easy to change settings as with the K3.

But ergonomics are definitely person specific.

[Trickortreat]

Primes. Exclusively primes.
While i have some issues with da primes on it (rotating focusing ring), manual focus primes are a joy to use with ks1. So i often use even the da primes in manual mode.

[stevebrot]

Depends on what you are shooting with it.

They are shooting baskets


Steve

[BigMackCam]

Dunno... i find K-S1 quite enjoyable to use... As for size of my hand - i can hold a basketball with it.

Which underlines, as discussions here have already shown, the idiom "one man's meat is another man's poison".

None of us can say what the K-3II replacement (or any other new camera) should be like in terms of size, weight and ergonomics, unless we profess to know what we and everyone else want. Realistically, we can only say what we personally prefer, and hope the new designs are more-or-less compatible with our preferences...

[MrB1]

Sometimes there can be legitimate complaints regarding factual aspects of ergonomics. One irritating feature of the KP for me is subjective - all the changeable grips are uncomfortable compared with the built-in grip of the K-70. However, the other is objectively true - the changeable grips are a waste of internal space, which could have been used to house, e.g., the larger capacity D-Li90 battery.

Philip

[texandrews]

Wow, a whopping 210 grams according to my handy dandy grams to pounds converter that's a whopping 7.40753 ounces or 0.462971 pounds or 0.000231485 U.S. Tons, a 20 ounce bottle of water must be a real burden for us old folks.....NOT. I'm nearly 73 and not a big guy, about 5'6 and 130 pounds and my K-3 is no burden to carry much of the day even with my 70-200 Tamron attached. I just don't see the crushing need for the next high spec APS-C Pentax DSLR to be a feather weight. In my opinion they should be working on improving the short comings of the present K-3/K-3II system and not trying downsize a well thought out camera body.

The above is the sole opinion of Larrymc and in no way reflects the opinion of the Pentax shooting public at large and is solely Larrymc's opinion

I'm going to be 63 in less than a month. My kit is a 645Z and several lenses, an accessory or two, travel tripos sometimes, and sometimes the laptop thrown in to boot. I routinely walk 5+ miles a day with 15 or more pounds of stuff.

The most important thing is to have great straps and bags that work for you.