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04-21-2019, 08:48 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
The most important thing is to have great straps and bags that work for you.
Good point. Weight is not an issue for me. I only have a K-3 and whatever lenses I fancy but if I am concentrating on photos I take the necessary gear. I have never based a camera purchase decision on weight. On the other hand, I will carry the Q7 and Q10 with a few lenses when space is an issue. So I guess it is "horses for courses" when deciding what system to work with.

04-22-2019, 12:31 AM - 1 Like   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by mjkelly62 Quote
Is it me but it seems as if Pentax is increasingly being neglected when it comes to news and reviews in camera magazines and online sources. For instance, the most recent Digital Camera World magazine in the UK featured a review of 70-200mm lenses for a variety of camera brands but Pentax were conspicuous by their absence from the 8 lenses reviewed. Only Nikon, Canon and Sony compatable lenses featured. Moreover, it seems that third-party lens manufacturers Tamron and Sigma no longer seem to offer Pentax compatable lenses among their range, especially when it comes to new lenses that come along.
I fear for the Pentax brand if this trend continues.
Regards
Mike
One of the main reason for raising the issue about the lack of coverage of Pentax is that it tends to impact on the ability to purchase lenses and other Pentax-related products in camera shops and online stores. I live in Denmark where there are virtually no Pentax-related products on sale in the major camera shops or, indeed, online stores either. For instance, in the last few years, three shops have stopped selling Pentax products. Of course, one might say that it is possible to get these from international resources but I would argue that there is no substitute for actually handling products before you buy them.

More importantly, to my mind, is the ability of some camera manufacturers to consistently innovate and develop new ranges. Just look at Fujifilm. They have totally transformed the mirrorless market with their X-T and X-Pro line. Before, they were also very much a “niche” camera manufacturer. Now they and Sony have taken over the mirrorless market with high-end products that have proved extremely popular and huge sellers. Canon and Nikon realise this and have now, belatedly, decided that they should get in on the act. Nikon’s recent Z series of full-frame cameras have received glowing reviews and, although there are as yet few dedicated lenses for these products, I’m sure they will rapidly produce more lenses, as will Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd-party lens manufacturers. They see the potential for these camera systems - just look at how they are constantly producing lenses for Sony’s A7 series.

A camera system will live or die on the manufacturers’ ability to innovate and update its range. Pentax, or should I say Ricoh, have to recognise this if they are serious about competing for market share or, more importantly, for ensuring that loyal Pentax users will continue to be happy to use their products in the knowledge that new cameras, lenses, etc will come online regularly. Not to do so, in my opinion, is either a reflection of Ricoh’s poor marketing strategy or simply that they are slowly but surely moving towards discontinuing DSLR and other similar products altogether.

Last edited by mjkelly62; 04-22-2019 at 01:15 AM.
04-22-2019, 01:29 AM - 2 Likes   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by mjkelly62 Quote
One of the main reason for raising the issue about the lack of coverage of Pentax is that it tends to impact on the ability to purchase lenses and other Pentax-related products in camera shops and online stores. I live in Denmark where there is virtually no Pentax-related products on sale in the major camera shops or, indeed, online stores either. For instance, in the last few years, three shops have stopped selling Pentax products. Of course, one might say that it is possible to get these from international resources but I would argue that there is no substitute for actually handling products before you buy them.

More importantly, to my mind, is the ability of some camera manufacturers to consistently innovate and develop new ranges. Just look at Fujifilm. They have totally transformed the mirrorless market with their X-T and X-Pro line. Before, they were also very much a “niche” camera manufacturer. Now they and Sony have taken over the mirrorless market with high-end products that have proved extremely popular and huge sellers. Canon and Nikon realise this and have now, belatedly, decided that they should get in on the act. Nikon’s recent Z series of full-frame cameras have received glowing reviews and, although there are as yet few dedicated lenses for these products, I’m sure they will rapidly produce more lenses, as will Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd-party lens manufacturers. They see the potential for these camera systems - just look at how they are constantly producing lenses for Sony’s A7 series.

A camera system will live or die on the manufacturers’ ability to innovate and update its range. Pentax, or should I say Ricoh, have to recognise this if they are serious about competing for market share or, more importantly, for ensuring that loyal Pentax users will continue to be happy to use their products in the knowledge that new cameras, lenses, etc will come online regularly. Not to do so, in my opinion, is either a reflection of Ricoh’s poor marketing strategy or simply that they are slowly but surely moving towards discontinuing DSLR and other similar products altogether.
Again, Mike, these are - with respect - well-worn points that have been discussed many times in these forums.

What's been very clear over the last five years plus is that Ricoh Imaging doesn't want Pentax to be like Fujifilm, Nikon, Canon, Olympus or Panasonic, choosing instead to operate within its own niche. It's not looking to totally transform anything, but to keep offering high quality DSLR cameras and lenses to a loyal and dedicated audience (this is the message I've taken from interviews with Ricoh Imaging management). Nor is it trying to compete for market share and grow hugely (we can deduce this from its minimal marketing approach), but rather to retain its position as a respected niche player, which it seems to be doing quite well. We can wish all we want that Pentax should be more like one or more of those other brands, but it's not going to be. It's clearly not Ricoh's intention.

Regarding bricks and mortar retail sales, there's only a handful of shops country-wide here in the UK that routinely carry Pentax, and in most cases those businesses have a serious online presence too. The last time I bought a Pentax camera or lens from a walk-in store was six years ago when the K-3 was released. Since then, all of my purchases have been online. I know some folks prefer handling equipment first, but the general trend is towards online sales. Ricoh knows what it would need to offer retailers if it wished to have a greater number of high street stockists, but isn't offering that - which suggests it's content with the existing retail coverage and model. We can wish all we want that Pentax equipment was commonly available in bricks and mortar stores, but that's extremely unlikely.

As for a camera system living or dying on the manufacturer's ability to innovate and update its range, to some extent I agree. But that has to be balanced with the manufacturer's intentions and expectations for maintaining and/or growing the brand, and - importantly - managing risk appropriate to the market in which it's operating. Pentax has a long history of innovation, but it tends to be quite gradual. I would agree that Ricoh Imaging is moving slowly but surely, but I'd argue that's what's keeping the division and the Pentax brand safe in a somewhat gloomy, shrinking and uncertain market. We can wish all we want that the pace of development was greater (I do too), but that's not going to be the case in the current market.

Ricoh Imaging has a plan for Pentax, of that we can be sure. We don't know exactly what it is, though we can make some informed guesses along the way. If it fits with what each of us wants, great. If it doesn't, we switch to a brand that does - as there's no way we'll mould it into what we'd like it to be. In any case, we all want slightly different things, so no matter what Ricoh does, some folks will think it should do otherwise

Last edited by BigMackCam; 04-22-2019 at 02:46 AM.
04-22-2019, 02:02 AM - 1 Like   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It's not looking to totally transform anything, but to keep offering high quality DSLR cameras and lenses to a loyal and dedicated audience
As long as the new recruits to Pentax keep pace with the rate the rest of us "drop off the perch" the brand should be OK. So some of the responsibility for Pentax continuing must rest with us as ambassadors for the brand. Self-interest!

04-22-2019, 03:44 AM - 2 Likes   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
As long as the new recruits to Pentax keep pace with the rate the rest of us "drop off the perch" the brand should be OK. So some of the responsibility for Pentax continuing must rest with us as ambassadors for the brand. Self-interest!

There used to be a time when I did act a bit like an unappointed brand ambassador, emphasizing that stuff had been shot with Pentax gear, trying to recommend Pentax to acquaintances who were looking for a camera, and the like. Till it occurred to me that I was acting more like a fanboy than a photographer. Given the strength of confirmation bias, I had also found that few (if any) people I talked to would actually pick up a Pentax, when they already had their sights on that latest Sony mirrorless or whatever, so it was largely a waste of time and effort anyway.

Instead, I adopted a quieter and less obtrusive approach to promoting the brand: When other photogs or laymen see me out in the field manning my tripod or otherwise shooting, their curiosity often gets the better of them, and they will start conversations with me about what I'm shooting - ostensibly, because what they really want to talk about is not so much the subject or the composition but what I shoot (i.e. what gear I use). Then, as if I couldn't care less about talking it, which is not entirely untrue, I will drop that I shoot Pentax, which more often than not leads to follow-up questions or comments, on which the other may learn that I shoot Pentax "because I care for results", "because it's the kind of gear that makes me want to go out and shoot", etc. Visitors to my SmugMug photosite can always check out the EXIFs via the info buttons if they must.

Dunno if that kind of soft-sell strategy will attract many younger followers, but it may spark occasional curiosity, which in turn may lead to genuine interest. When people "discover" Pentax in this way, it may turn out to be more effective and sustainable than trying to actively stuff it down people's throats, as seems to be the standard in the photo industry. Such genuinely-convinced, photography-focussed followers are probably more valuable for the survival of the brand than the common button-sniffers which will soon drop the brand for the supposedly latest and greatest around the corner anyway.

I have also learnt to accept that just because Pentax gear works near-perfectly for me doesn't mean this will be the case for everyone. People just expect different things from their gear and should be free to shoot whatever fits their bill.

Last edited by Madaboutpix; 04-22-2019 at 04:42 AM. Reason: added thought
04-22-2019, 03:50 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
soft-sell strategy
Definitely soft-sell. I don't mean push it. But if someone younger shows an interest you can tell them why you like Pentax (all those legacy lenses is a nice point).
04-22-2019, 09:29 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
As long as the new recruits to Pentax keep pace with the rate the rest of us "drop off the perch" the brand should be OK. So some of the responsibility for Pentax continuing must rest with us as ambassadors for the brand. Self-interest!
I promote Pentax as much as I can over at DPR under name drummercam. A couple of posts active now. Go chime in!
04-22-2019, 10:05 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
I promote Pentax as much as I can over at DPR under name drummercam. A couple of posts active now. Go chime in!
My skin is too thin for DPR. They play rough.


Steve

04-22-2019, 10:22 AM - 1 Like   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by ebk Quote
may be your right.

ricoh pentax is only supporting the ricoh camera's.
not the pentax dslr.
and no upgrading of the pentax dslr
The K-1ii was released last year - and when it did come out, people were using the term "face-lift" to describe it.
If you look at the other brands, you don't see great, tremendous advancements over a year or two.
Digital photography is where film photography was at the end of the Age of Film - slow advances, which should make our wallets happy.

Ricoh has said that the K-3ii replacement should be out in the next year or so.
04-22-2019, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
But if someone younger shows an interest you can tell them why you like Pentax (all those legacy lenses is a nice point).
I spend most of my time showing what my KP can do at higher ISO settings - and for just $800 right now.
04-22-2019, 06:24 PM   #101
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Agreed!

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The K-1ii was released last year - and when it did come out, people were using the term "face-lift" to describe it.
If you look at the other brands, you don't see great, tremendous advancements over a year or two.
Digital photography is where film photography was at the end of the Age of Film - slow advances, which should make our wallets happy.
Or leave room for the other necessaries for our photography. But I think you are quite correct about where we are in this general trajectory. Personally, for my K1U2, the main things that would lead me to upgrade would be significantly improved video and a touch screen (which is helpful for focus, but REALLY helpful for video...), and maybe graceful tethering.

Tethering has actually become more of a big deal for me, but I recognize that that's either a pro issue (as it is for some of my work) or maybe a macro specialty, so not an improvement that would benefit the most people.
04-25-2019, 12:13 AM - 2 Likes   #102
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Pentax is very well known as a forgotten brand. Every word in the sentence counts.


Did you said "Pentax"?
"Yes"
"Ah I see, are you talking about the forgotten brand that everyone knows?"
"Absolutely"

Not every camera brands has such as clear market positioning as Pentax !
04-25-2019, 01:50 AM   #103
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While I do believe that Ricoh know what they are doing, and I like what they are doing, it is hard to ignore that Pentax is becoming increasinly marginalised or disregarded - I'd cite Amateur Photographer magazine here in the UK, which used to be very enthusiastic about Pentax, but now largely ignores the brand or casts doubt on its long term viability (I never read it these days, but that's what I get from the website) - and the recent TIPA awards, for example, with no representation for Pentax , despite a couple of great new lenses (not sure if the 11-18 was out in time, but the D-FA* 50 was).

There is a perception out there, fostered by a lot of YouTubers and others, that Pentax is a dying brand, falling behind technologically and becoming irrelevant. Most of us are old enough to have gron up in an era hen so-called underdogs were supported by the photogtraphic media, who understood that diversity is good for photographers, but kicking underdogs in the face is much more commonplace now, as is a pack mentality that deligts in taking out the supposedly wounded.

Maybe Ricoh saves enough on its low-key marketing to deliver high margins on lo sales, but its user base is getting old and most of us first met the brand in its glory days. We know that Pentax still produces some great and unique products, but the brand does need to ifind new enthusiasts ho see something that they value enough to clear the hurdle of all the negativity out there. But you can't 'Just hold a Pentax' if there is no presence in the stores, and that was always a winning ticket for Pentax.

As I say, I'm not despairing about the future - I think that Ricoh are pursuing the right strategy in terms of high quality at a reasonable price, and I like what they are producing - but I do understand the OP's concerns and hope that Ricoh will soon come up ith the products that will give it the impetus to start expanding Pentax out from its home range and aging user base again.
04-25-2019, 02:20 AM   #104
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It feel strange that I don't need to buy any new camera equipment and that Ricoh aren't releasing anything, simply because it makes perfect sense not to release new products that customers won't buy, but at the same time, not selling/buying any new product means that the camera related business is, at least temporarily, a dead business. It's never been so quiet, even other brands have released new products but almost no one buy them. A few years back , someone say "Photography is a solved problem", but I don't completely agree with that statement, I think it should be "Photography equipment is a solved problem", we only have to work of the artistic side of image creation and do so costs nothing but time.
04-28-2019, 08:05 AM   #105
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canon guy buys pentax

YAR! i be a canon guy. back in the day, only 5ish years ago, i saw lots of cheap fun lenses with full auto metering for
k mount but not for canon/nikon. if i wanted an 8 mm fisheye with auto exposure i had to pony up more cash for C/N.
what to do? buy a used pentax body cheap! a k100d and k200d. besides i had a bunch of "real" takumars i picked up 30 years ago. i heard that pentax/ricoh licensed their auto exposure more willingly than C/N. even including the cost of a pentax body i saved big time on lenses with full auto exposure.

fast forward to the present, i use all those lenses on mirrorless boxes. i learned my lesson, if you have GAS buy used. thanks, pentax!
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