[monochrome]

On P-K mount lots of third party lenses are being badge-engineered by Pentax and sold exclusively under the original Pentax brand.
Not only Tokina, I just found out recently that the new DFA 15-30 2.8 lens is basically a rebranded Tamron 15-30, minus the OS.... unfortunately it's 50% more expensive than a Tamron would be.
Well, Sigma currently has a run, yet they won't release their awesome new stuff for Pentax any more, but at least they still released the highly anticipated 18-35mm 1.8 Art for Pentax too.

Dude. The Tokina Opera 50mm f/1.4 FF is acknowledged as a co-design variant of the Pentax-designed and manufactured HD Pentax-D FA* 50mm f/1.4 SDM AW. We know Pentax exclusively designed the optics and process technology. Tokina designed - well - they won’t say what part they did. Maybe they just paid money. Apparently both lenses share the AF motor. The Tokina lacks superior Pentax coating technology so call it a rebadge of the Pentax lens..

So - lots of? How many? What percent of current-catalog Pentax lenses is a rebadge?

Really - name them all. Here’s a start.

1. HD Pentax-D FA 15-30mm f/2.8 SDM WR = Tamron 2015
2. HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm f/2.8 SDM WR = Tamron 2016
3. SMC Pentax-DA 18-270mm f3.5-6.3ED SDM = Tamron 2012 (Biz-Engineer)
4. smc Pentax-DA 12-24mm f/4 ED AL [IF] = Tokina 2005; licensed optical formula. (Mistral75)

That’s all. 4 lenses of 42 currently in the catalog, so NOT ‘lots’.

[EDIT] Added lenses from following replies.

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Last edited by monochrome; 04-19-2019 at 05:02 PM.

[biz-engineer]

?

SMC DA18-250 and SMC DA18-270 were from Tamron (years ago).

---------- Post added 19-04-19 at 14:43 ----------

?

I've seen wine tasting experts able to tell the name and year of a wine, but I haven't met anyone looking at prints on a wall saying "that's a Tamron 24-70" or "that's a Nikkor 24-120 f4 G" or "that's a Canon 24-105 L"

[SharkyCA]

Is it me but it seems as if Pentax is increasingly being neglected when it comes to news and reviews in camera magazines and online sources. For instance, the most recent Digital Camera World magazine in the UK featured a review of 70-200mm lenses for a variety of camera brands but Pentax were conspicuous by their absence from the 8 lenses reviewed. Only Nikon, Canon and Sony compatable lenses featured. Moreover, it seems that third-party lens manufacturers Tamron and Sigma no longer seem to offer Pentax compatable lenses among their range, especially when it comes to new lenses that come along.
I fear for the Pentax brand if this trend continues.
Regards
Mike

Pentax is like the negative space in a photo. Everyone will notice Pentax is absent, because everyone knows Pentax. Pentax is so unknown that you found your way up to here, Pentaxforums to make your point about Pentax, and your post reminds us about the presence of Pentax. Thank you for posting.

---------- Post added 19-04-19 at 11:52 ----------

Pentax is not about the new lenses advertised in the latest doomed magazine, Pentax is a legendary brand.

may be your right.


ricoh pentax is only supporting the ricoh camera's.
not the pentax dslr.
and no upgrading of the pentax dslr

Just sharing a new video from Ricoh/Pentax

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[peterbond]

Firstly, welcome to the forums, Mike

This same discussion, in one form or another, has cropped up periodically in these forums countless times for years now. Indeed, for most of the years I've been active here, some folks have feared for Pentax's future... and yet, here we are in 2019 with Ricoh still releasing new Pentax (and Ricoh own brand) cameras and lenses to an eager and receptive user base.

The thing is, Pentax is a niche brand... far more so than the others you've mentioned. Magazines and websites tend to focus on brands with the widest user bases. Larger third party lens manufacturers are building for brands that will result in high volume sales. In their view, they're not going to get enough sales to justify producing K-mount. But you'll note that smaller lens manufacturers are in fact continuing to support K-mount.

My advice would be, don't fear for the brand. It may not be as widespread and prolific as Nikon, Canon, Sony etc., but neither is Leica, and they're doing just fine



With respect, that's wholly inaccurate.

Ricoh has several current Pentax DSLR models that it supports fully, and is gradually expanding the number of lenses available for them. The pace of development and number of new camera releases has reduced, but one could argue that's a smart move by Ricoh given the falling sales figures for interchangeable lens cameras year on year. That aside, Ricoh Imaging management has made clear in interviews that it will continue to produce Pentax cameras and lenses.

I agree with Mike’s comments. Pentax lenses are overpriced and neither Tamron or Sigma are bothered about anyone with a K mount. Who are these “smaller lens manufacturers” you say are continuing to support Pentax ?
I recently enquired about Lensbaby products only to be told they had discontinued the K mount models.

[monochrome]

SMC DA18-250

Discontined in 2012

SMC DA18-270 were from Tamron (years ago).

I updated my post to three lenses in the current catalog.

[stevebrot]

What percent of current-catalog Pentax lenses is a rebadge?

Rebadge is difficult to parse when lenses are released under two different names. The DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA* 50-135/2.8 both had/have Tokina twins. Going back further, the earliest Pentax example of ambiguous rebadge I am aware of might be the Pentax-M 200/4 and the XR Rikenon 200/4 (virtual twins) and possibly the XR Rikenon 28/3.5 and Pentax-M 28/3.5 (or is it the XR Rikenon 35/2.8 and Pentax-M 35/2.8?). Opinions are split as to who made which.


Steve

[monochrome]

Rebadge is difficult to parse when lenses are released under two different names. The DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA* 50-135/2.8 both had/have Tokina twins. Going back further, the earliest Pentax example of ambiguous rebadge I am aware of might be the Pentax-M 200/4 and the XR Rikenon 200/4 (virtual twins) and possibly the XR Rikenon 28/3.5 and Pentax-M 28/3.5 (or is it the XR Rikenon 35/2.8 and Pentax-M 35/2.8?). Opinions are split as to who made which.


Steve

I get that, and co-designing, design-licensing and rebadging make economic sense for small, niche makers like Ricoh Imaging. However, I dispute the disparaging “lots of’ given Ricoh Imaging apparently desires to promote their optical design skill as a brand differentiator for both the Pentax and Ricoh brands.

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Last edited by monochrome; 04-19-2019 at 06:10 AM.

[normhead]

Rebadge is difficult to parse when lenses are released under two different names. The DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA* 50-135/2.8 both had/have Tokina twins. Going back further, the earliest Pentax example of ambiguous rebadge I am aware of might be the Pentax-M 200/4 and the XR Rikenon 200/4 (virtual twins) and possibly the XR Rikenon 28/3.5 and Pentax-M 28/3.5 (or is it the XR Rikenon 35/2.8 and Pentax-M 35/2.8?). Opinions are split as to who made which.


Steve

Not that it matters to anyone but the historians.

[LensBeginner]

Slightly unrelated... I just bought a brand-old Panny GH2 for video.
I'll only be using my Pentax lenses on it.

Tried it for stills, liked the LV magnification, which allows you to zoom more than on my K-01/K-30, but that's about it.
I'll happily keep using my Pentax cameras for stills.

BTW this is not a comparison, but if one wants to make it into one, both the K-01 and the K-30 use the K-5 sensor, and the K-30 is essentially a K-5 with little more here and little less there.
GH2 and K5 both launched Oct 2010, so sensor tech is from roughly the same generation.

[normhead]

Slightly unrelated... I just bought a brand-old Panny GH2 for video.
I'll only be using my Pentax lenses on it.

Tried it for stills, liked the LV magnification, which allows you to zoom more than on my K-01/K-30, but that's about it.
I'll happily keep using my Pentax cameras for stills.

BTW this is not a comparison, but if one wants to make it into one, both the K-01 and the K-30 use the K-5 sensor, and the K-30 is essentially a K-5 with little more here and little less there.
GH2 and K5 both launched Oct 2010, so sensor tech is from roughly the same generation.

The big new thing with the K-30 was an extra lens element to help focusing in artificial light.

[BigMackCam]

I agree with Mike’s comments.

Welcome to the forums, Peter, from another UK member

I assume you're referring to the OP (I'm "Mike" too )...

Pentax lenses are overpriced

That's a pretty broad statement. I wouldn't deny that some Pentax lenses are expensive, but most - so far as I'm aware - offer comparable value-for-money to other brands. For example, compare the prices between Pentax's D FA15-30/2.8, D FA24-70/2.8 and D FA*70-200/2.8 with Nikon and Canon's nearest equivalents, and Pentax looks rather competitive. Yes, the D FA*50/1.4 is pricey for a fast 50mm lens, but it's offering the very best in image quality. Aside from the Tokina version, there's little in the market to compare with it. The new DA*11-18/2.8 is also pretty expensive, but again it's a "star" lens... you get what you pay for. Generally, though, I don't see where Pentax lenses are overpriced when compared to other major camera brand lenses.

neither Tamron or Sigma are bothered about anyone with a K mount.

In Sigma's case, this is true. It hasn't sold enough K-mount models in recent years to make it worthwhile. Plus, I have a sneaking suspicion that Sigma doesn't want to risk a repeat performance of having to update lens mount areas and/or firmware, as was required with some of their models when the K-1 was released.

As for Tamron, I believe there's a deal in place with Ricoh Imaging that prevents Tamron from manufacturing lenses for K-mount, except those branded as Pentax and manufactured under contract.

With sales in the interchangeable lens camera market falling, I don't see sales volumes of Pentax cameras increasing significantly, so I don't believe this situation is likely to change. It is what it is. If folks consider it a serious problem that they don't have access to new third party lenses, and they believe this is holding them back, they should absolutely switch to another brand that fits their requirements better.

Who are these “smaller lens manufacturers” you say are continuing to support Pentax ?
I recently enquired about Lensbaby products only to be told they had discontinued the K mount models.

Samyang / Rokinon
Laowa
Lomography
Zhongyi Mitakon

[stevebrot]

I agree with Mike’s comments. Pentax lenses are overpriced and neither Tamron or Sigma are bothered about anyone with a K mount. Who are these “smaller lens manufacturers” you say are continuing to support Pentax ?
I recently enquired about Lensbaby products only to be told they had discontinued the K mount models.

Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

You were mislead regarding Lensbaby (3 models in Pentax-K, including the new Sol 45) and as far as 3rd-party brand support, B&H currently lists eight 3rd-party makes available through them including both Sigma and Tamron. Tamron is a bit problematic in that they co-produce certain models with Pentax and likely have non-compete agreements.

Sigma is the big sticking point, though one that is fairly easily explained and not by the usual logic of "no Sigma because Pentax is doomed" line. Along with many other factors, the decision to enter or continue in a particular market segment include:

• The cost to do so
• The market size in terms of potential revenue on a per product basis
• Projected penetration and market share (not the same)

Both Pentax-K and Nikon-F require high mechanical standards for aperture control mechanism, one which Sigma is willing to accept on portions of its line based apparently on ROI from market research and past performance. Sigma's recent lack of enthusiasm closely tracks Pentax announcements of direct competition at the high end. That translates to decreased penetration in what is likely a marginal market to start with. The same may be true with Tamron. Example: maybe we get no new Tamron 70-210 because Pentax is bringing a new mid-priced 70-210 to market. Who knows, it may well be cousin to the Tamron.


Steve

[stevebrot]

Not that it matters to anyone but the historians.

My point is that it is nothing new.



Steve

[texandrews]

Pentax is a cult brand for photo enthusiasts.

Poor man's Leica?...used to be known as poor man's Nikon. Sadly, it's also mostly men. I wish women would flood in and buy....

I believe their absence is part of the cult;

hmmmm...maybe, but it sure is annoying.

Pentax is a choice made by the informed. You are not choosing a Pentax to follow the herd. It is not something you bought because someone in camera store said you should. It is a deliberate, individual and informed choice made after research.

Now, that is very, very true. I don't think Pentax is accidentally purchased. We who buy into the brand do so with pretty specific intent. I did so years ago in film days, and now again. And I wasn't dissatisfied with the other brands I was using. But for my photography practice, Pentax is the way to go.

[CarlJF]

Not only Tokina, I just found out recently that the new DFA 15-30 2.8 lens is basically a rebranded Tamron 15-30, minus the OS.... unfortunately it's 50% more expensive than a Tamron would be.

You should have took a few minutes to check the facts before making this kind of affirmation. There's a diiference between launch price and street price... I've chekced for you, actual prices on B&H, including rebates:

Tamron 15-30 2.8: 1300$ Canon or Nikon mount
Pentax 15-30: 1200$

Maybe my math is wrong, but 1200$ isn't 50% more expensive than 1300$... And for the absence of OS on the Pentax lens, all Pentax bodies released in the last 10 years or so have IBIS. And the K-1 offers a 5-stop IBIS which compared favorably to the 4.5 offered by the lens in other mounts. Not many people will see an issue in this.

Now, to put things even more in perspective, here are the prices of similar lenses from other manufacturers:

Canon 16-35 2.8:1900$
Nikon 14-24: 1900$ without stabilization
Sony 16-35: 2200$ without stabilization

So, you're free to believe that the 15-30 is too costly for a OEM lens, but good luck finding a better deal elsewhere... Because the facts tells another story.