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05-22-2019, 03:32 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Again, you are completely guessing, the executives have this data and use it to make strategy, while you have absolutely no idea.None of the camera divisions - Canon, Panasonic, Nikon - release individual model sales even to their shareholders, let alone you!Fuji may be kept going by its Instax film camera sales.
Yes I'm guessing - did Ricoh DSLR gear make profit?

05-22-2019, 03:36 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Yes I'm guessing - did Ricoh DSLR gear make profit?
Maybe they sold very few cameras but lots of lenses, Trickortreat … you don't know!

The executives do, and they decide what happens, not you.
05-22-2019, 03:36 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
They will have serious market research that you don't have, Trickortreat.
And i can assure you they cant make a market research that people will flock back to DSLR - they'd have to have a crystal ball for that..

---------- Post added 05-22-19 at 12:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The executives do, and they decide what happens, not you.
Its silly to even think i'd decide Pentax fate
05-22-2019, 05:33 AM - 1 Like   #34
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Everyone is assuming that human beings are rational agents who make their camera buying decisions after a careful consideration of features and benefits, but mostly they aren't. And there's one key thing about mirrorless cameras that never gets mentioned in forum discussions: the fact that they just don't look all that impressive as status symbols around the owner's necks.

Around here we're all photography enthusiasts who think in great detail about which features we need in a camera to get the results we want, but we're just a tiny minority of the camera buying public. Many people, perhaps most people, buy cameras as visual totems of the fact that they can afford such a thing. They know they mostly won't get results any better than they could get with a decent phone, but darn it, they want that big hefty camera with the massive zoom lens and "Canon" or "Nikon" on the neck strap in nice bright colours. They want something that looks "professional", that they think marks them out as what they imagine an expert photographer looks like.

And DSLRs do that job better than mirrorless cameras. Just look at the new full frame mirrorless options from Canon and Nikon: pathetic little pimples on top for the viewfinder instead of a proper manly pentaprism; smaller, thinner bodies that only look suitable for smaller, thinner hands; even smaller lenses, for crying out loud. What sort of man wants a smaller zoom lens?

I'm being serious here. The DSLR is always going to beat the mirrorless in the mass, non-enthusiast market because it looks so much more impressive around the neck as a status symbol.

05-22-2019, 05:36 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
The DSLR is always going to beat the mirrorless in the mass, non-enthusiast market because it looks so much more impressive around the neck as a status symbol.
I think that's a job for a rangefinder, not DSLR
05-22-2019, 05:38 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
I think that's a job for a rangefinder, not DSLR

Only if the rangefinder has a little red dot on the front.
05-22-2019, 05:48 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
This is exactly what the Ricoh executive suggested some would do, Dericali … and everyone at PetaPixel, DPR, etc is laughing.
Yeah but a third of the people posting on DPR think you don't need a camera any more these days and you can just use a phone, so it's not exactly a discerning crowd
05-22-2019, 05:52 AM - 3 Likes   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think the critical word in the entire section on returning MILC shooters is “some”. So many people have drunk the mirrorless Kool-Aid that no one hears nuance - or even direct words - any more.
Spot on.
Typical reaction these days is to hastily construct a strawman (by ignoring "some", and the fact that it's about Pentax continuing as a DSLR brand rather than achieving world dominance with DSLRs) then start spewing crap about Ricoh execs being drugged - then there's the usual mantra about people still wanting a choice being "fanboys" (as opposed to the well mannered, good thinking gentlemen which all know MILCs are The One and Only Choice).
It's a battle to the death, in their minds.

The other forum is particularly awful these days.

05-22-2019, 05:58 AM - 1 Like   #39
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Just an observation from the past several weeks: I've been on numerous group shoots, generally working with models but occasionally wildlife. Several are Sony fans and as a rule spend far more time setting up shots than the experienced among us with DSLR's. The results have not been more impressive either. Most of it comes down to the person behind the lens and good fortune, not the camera platform they used.

As far as focus anytime it's come up that the person next to me shooting his a7III exclaims "look at that eye focus, OMG" my shot generally matches 'em off a lowly old K70. Focus has NOT been an issue for the majority of work I do. If my primary interest was shooting sports and action I might pick up a recent Fuji or Sony 6x series and see if it's worthwhile, but for general landscape, portraits, nature, architecture etc I remain unconvinced there would be any advantage whatsoever for me going all in the mirrorless fold.

Last edited by gatorguy; 05-22-2019 at 10:29 AM.
05-22-2019, 06:03 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Just an observation from the past several weeks: I've been on numerous group shoots, generally working with models but occasionally wildlife. Several are Sony fans and as a rule speed far more time setting up shots than the experienced among us with DSLR's. The results have not been more impressive either. Most of it comes down to the person behind the lens and good fortune, not the camera platform they used.
Maybe that's what they call "WYSIWYG" i.e. trial and error and hope the result will resemble how it looks in the EVF?
05-22-2019, 06:09 AM   #41
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I think more DSLR users may switch to MILC once Canon and Nikon come up with APSC. Some of my friends use D500. They do not want FF. Once Nikon comes with APSC they may hop on to MILC.
05-22-2019, 06:13 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxfall Quote
I think more DSLR users may switch to MILC once Canon and Nikon come up with APSC.
But Canon already has APSC mirrorless...
05-22-2019, 06:20 AM - 2 Likes   #43
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There is always this amazing MILC just behind the corner, which will surely persuade everyone still using a DSLR
05-22-2019, 07:08 AM - 6 Likes   #44
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It's funny how people who spend their time looking at a TV version of the world through their viewfinders think that those who prefer looking at the real thing are detached from reality...
05-22-2019, 07:08 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
There is always this amazing MILC just behind the corner, which will surely persuade everyone still using a DSLR
Ya, I keep waiting but bottom line, for the same money, MILC has nothing to offer.
Right now if I had money coming in in wheelbarrows and decided to go absolute top of the line. Sony A9 or 1Dxii or Nikon D850, I'd probably go D850. Its more my style. But I don't have wheelbarrows full of money and what I have works fine. To the point I won't even be looking until something breaks.... I still have some lenses in mind though.
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