[clackers]

You can add me to the list too. For some years, Pentax was my digital photography platform. I bought my A7 MkII primarily for adapted lens use, and as a backup to my occasional Sony A-mount platform. It's great for both use cases. But I gravitate back to my Pentax gear and K-mount for the most rewarding chunk of my photography activities. Actually, I enjoy being in the position I'm in. I'm relatively balanced and unbiased about manufacturers and DSLR / mirrorless technlogies, because I enjoy more than one of each, so there's little anyone can do to shoot down my preferences. And when I say that I enjoy shooting my Pentax DSLR gear most of all, I can be pretty confident that it's not from a "fanboy" perspective as some folks would hope and/or suggest...

Sure, once we understand such individuals exist, the logic suddenly makes sense. Not to one of the three big dinosaurs duking it out for share in a shrinking market, but to a minnow quietly doing its thing while drama happens all round.

I just read we have a forum member named Belpe who during the fad went off and bought a Fujifilm XT3 , he's just returned and bought a K-1 to go with it, and is ordering a huge DFA 15-30mm f2.8 as well!

[EFats]

Because it's awesome, that's why

Because it's awesome and very different.
To me there isn't a lot of difference between APS-C/full mirrorless vs DSLR. A few FPS here and there, some difference in video, a bit more or less battery life.


The Q is just such a different beast, this is one of the best applications in my opinion. You could never cram a DSLR in such a small and light package (could you?). It beats the DSLR in size & weight and bests any smartphone in sheer handling joy and being an efficient photographic tool. Bring back the Q!

[Trickortreat]

However, a good percentage (probably about 20-50%) of those new MILC buyers will also discover that although a VF is great for photography, an EVF is not pleasant for the photographer (at least not them).

Your numbers are waaay off.
Ever tougt that those novice smartphone shooters are just buying new gear because it is new and they dont really need it?
So if they dont like the mirrorles they bought theyd just put it on a shelf there or sell it and go back to smartphones?
They are used looking at electronic screens anyway.

[Asimov]

Reading this thread submerged me once again in the wonderful land beyond the looking glass that is the human psyche.
Some of you actually made an attempt at explaining the reasoning behind the statement of the Pentax official. Others gave me an idea of what their experiences are with both systems.
I’d like to thank them for that.

I have had Pentax (D)SLR’s for more than 30 years. In all that time I kept experimenting with my camera’s. I still do.
Once in a while though, I question myself and my relationship to people and things. Sometimes doubts will rise and closing my eyes won’t make them go away. Especially when my photography teacher shows me what his MILC is capable of or when he sent me the link that started this thread.
I think I will sit this one out until the dust had settled. In the meantime Pentax it will remain.
Gentlemen (and women), “l’incident est clos!”.

[ffking]

One thing to consider is that the average Pentax user is probably of a generation that has seen more technology come and go than any other in human history - it's not unreasonable to want to see clear benefits in any new thing before taking on learning yet another new way of doing things.

But we are getting older, and people inducted into photography by their phones will see screens as the natural way to view a scene prior to exposure. My fear is that DSLRs ill die out not because they in any way inadeqaute picture taking tools but meerly because they will seem like a foreign concept and thus take a little work to get used to for younger people wanting to move on from phones.

I'm pretty sure that I'll always prefer an OVF to an EVF, but no company can build it's future on people who are gettig old - I'm interested to see hat Ricoh will come up with.

[BigMackCam]

Your numbers are waaay off.

What are the numbers, out of interest? I'd be curious to look at those..,

[Dartmoor Dave]

But we are getting older, and people inducted into photography by their phones will see screens as the natural way to view a scene prior to exposure. My fear is that DSLRs ill die out not because they in any way inadeqaute picture taking tools but meerly because they will seem like a foreign concept and thus take a little work to get used to for younger people wanting to move on from phones.

Although almost every time I've seen a person who looks under 30 taking photos around here with something other than a smartphone, they've been shooting film. Possibly I don't live in a very representative area, but every single young person I know uses simple technology like smartphones for times when high quality isn't necessary, while appreciating the need to use better equipment with more care when they want quality. There seems to be a real understanding among them that doing things in ways that require thought and care can be satisfying in itself, and I'm not sure that mirrorless will appeal to them purely on the grounds of being easier to use.

[ffking]

Possibly I don't live in a very representative area,

Wait until electricity reaches Devon - you'll see

[Trickortreat]

One, they have the research, you don't. Japanese executives are not grandstanders like Elon Musk, it's a different culture, they're very careful, very deliberate in what they say. When the Canon exec said the camera industry is in for sales slaughter in the next few years, he meant it and would have the studies to back his statement up.

You seem to think that Ricoh exec cant make a mistake in their prediction. It wouldn be the first. And even bigger companies went down because of some "great business info".
Besides, im pretty sure they only said it to calm their current users and investors. Nothing else.

---------- Post added 05-23-19 at 10:47 AM ----------

What are the numbers, out of interest? I'd be curious to look at those..,

Dont know. But 20-50% he claimed?!
Sounds silly...

[Dan Rentea]

And DSLRs do that job better than mirrorless cameras. Just look at the new full frame mirrorless options from Canon and Nikon: pathetic little pimples on top for the viewfinder instead of a proper manly pentaprism; smaller, thinner bodies that only look suitable for smaller, thinner hands; even smaller lenses, for crying out loud.

Shooting with EOS R for a while now makes me think why my 5D Mark IV is better. Sure, 5D has 2 card slots, more fps with tracking activated and it also has OVF, but despite the fact that I still have headaches from EVF, 90% of the time I tend to grab EOS R instead of 5D Mark IV. And not because is lighter or smaller, but because is fun to use, the EF lenses work flawlessly on EOS R, touch af is faster than joystick (as long as you don't use gloves), articulating screen is helpful and seeing how the final image will look in the viewfinder is really nice.

And speaking of mirrorless being smaller than DSLRs, if you shoot with a K5/K3, you will find the grip from EOS R similar to the Pentax bodies.

Pentax K3 II dimensions: 131 x 100 x 77mm (5.16 x 3.94 x 3.03 inches)
Canon EOS R dimensions: 135.8 x 98.3 x 84.4 mm (5.3 x 3.9 x 3.3 inches)

If you want bigger than that, there is Panasonic with their 2 mirrorless cameras which are DSLR size.

What sort of man wants a smaller zoom lens?

If you like big zoom lenses, try the RF 28-70mm f2L lens.

I'm being serious here. The DSLR is always going to beat the mirrorless in the mass, non-enthusiast market because it looks so much more impressive around the neck as a status symbol.

Sony and Fuji (even Olympus) did a very good job here in making this statement of yours "it looks so much more impressive around the neck as a status symbol" more like an internet myth if you ask me. Those days are long gone.

I wish Pentax to enter in mirrorless market just to see what kind of new features can bring to the market, like they did with in body stabilisation for DSLRs, pixel shift, astrotracer, etc. Sadly, a decision like that may ruin them if they will move as slow as they move now when comes to lenses. And there is another thing to consider: Pentax is a field camera, mostly oriented to landscape photographers given the features that K1/KP have. EVF, eye af, silent shooting and other mirrorless features are not that important to this category. Competing with Canon, Sony, Nikon on sport category is again, a waste of time due to very large investments that Ricoh can't or won't put in such a project. Wedding photographers may be a category for a Pentax mirrorless camera, but if you ask me, I rather see Ricoh adress to this category of photographers by releasing a 24-30mp full frame DSLR camera with faster burst rate and better buffer clearing time than K1 rather than releasing a mirrorless camera. For weddings resolution is less important so a 45mp camera is a little too much, at least in my opinion.

[Dartmoor Dave]

Wait until electricity reaches Devon - you'll see

What is this electrickery of which you speak? Sounds like witchcraft to me.

[Dartmoor Dave]

EVF, eye af, silent shooting and other mirrorless features are not that important to this category.

Silent shooting is the one thing a mirrorless can do that really does appeal to me personally. There have been times now and then when I haven't been able to take a shot that I wanted to with a DSLR because of the shutter noise. But the rest of it is just fripperies.

[Dan Rentea]

But the rest of it is just fripperies.

More or less...depending on the photographer. Even if eye af may not apeal to you, this feature alone was the main reason I started to play as much as I can with mirrorless cameras from all manufacturers. It's so much easier to concentrate on composition no matter where the subject is moving in the frame instead of moving the af point from one corner of the frame to the other, especially when shooting at fast aperture (f1.4 - f2.8). Not to mention that eye af works in the corners of the frame while with DSLRs you have less options.

[Rondec]

More or less...depending on the photographer. Even if eye af may not apeal to you, this feature alone was the main reason I started to play as much as I can with mirrorless cameras from all manufacturers. It's so much easier to concentrate on composition no matter where the subject is moving in the frame instead of moving the af point from one corner of the frame to the other, especially when shooting at fast aperture (f1.4 - f2.8). Not to mention that eye af works in the corners of the frame while with DSLRs you have less options.

Mirrorless comes up regularly on the Forum with people suggesting that Pentax should release one. I just think that the best Pentax could do with a mirrorless camera probably wouldn't actually satisfy. They just aren't a tech company and so their EVF would probably be a couple of generations old, their auto focus would be whatever we see with next generation cameras in live view (not great), and their video would continue to be suboptimal. In that situation, you are unlikely to be able to steal photographers from other brands' MILC offerings.

What Pentax is likely to do is to figure out some kind of hybrid viewfinder that allows the best of both worlds and to add additional contrast auto focus processor that would allow for eye AF when using the OVF. SLR development doesn't have to be dead. Pentax probably will never have frame rate monsters, but they can have some really nice features that will help make their cameras stand out from the others on the market.

[Dan Rentea]

Mirrorless comes up regularly on the Forum with people suggesting that Pentax should release one. I just think that the best Pentax could do with a mirrorless camera probably wouldn't actually satisfy. They just aren't a tech company and so their EVF would probably be a couple of generations old, their auto focus would be whatever we see with next generation cameras in live view (not great), and their video would continue to be suboptimal. In that situation, you are unlikely to be able to steal photographers from other brands' MILC offerings.

Pentax doesn't have the best af in their DSLRs either. The video again, is not as good as the others. They used an old D800 sensor for K1, etc. And yet, K1 is one of the best landscape cameras and improved the image and the sales for Ricoh without them being a tech company. If they did it with K1, probably they can do it with a mirrorless camera also. The problem is with what cost? And starting this project by releasing also new lenses again... it may be too much for them as an investment.

What Pentax is likely to do is to figure out some kind of hybrid viewfinder that allows the best of both worlds and to add additional contrast auto focus processor that would allow for eye AF when using the OVF. SLR development doesn't have to be dead. Pentax probably will never have frame rate monsters, but they can have some really nice features that will help make their cameras stand out from the others on the market.

That would be nice and it's why I'm waiting to see if there will be a Canon 5D Mark V with such a viewfinder (there are some rumors about hibrid viewfinder on the upcoming 1Dx Mark III) before making a move and make the transition slowly to mirrorless.