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02-06-2021, 02:34 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Smartphones are entry level photography. If people want more they’ll start looking into ILC’s and full frames. I think the stepping stone model is dead.
Yes and the entry level performance will increase rapidly,AI is doing wonders and is going forward at increasing levels each year.

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 08:38 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Not cheap,
But probably a bargain compared to Sony$ high end phn which is U$ 2500ish(buy it as an external monitor for the A1).

02-06-2021, 03:35 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes and the entry level performance will increase rapidly,AI is doing wonders and is going forward at increasing levels each year.

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 08:38 AM ----------



But probably a bargain compared to Sony$ high end phn which is U$ 2500ish(buy it as an external monitor for the A1).
2500, lol.

At least if you play the promotion/trade/Black Friday sales combo game you can usually pickup a flagship phone for like 1/3 the msrp.

That A1 is nuts to watch it shoot 50mp at 30fps. I can do that with the z5 but at 8mp lol. But it makes sense I guess at like 1/5th the price, 1/5th the megapixels!
02-06-2021, 04:04 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
2500, lol.
LOL was my reaction.Its the model that's in the A1 Sony promo(the one that goes around 25mins.)
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
That A1 is nuts to watch it shoot 50mp at 30fps.
As long as they have a lens with a linear motor attached it does it ,and the subject doesn't move!Always wanted 30 shots the same for 6500 plus the 2500 for the phn that doubles as an external monitor!

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 10:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
I can do that with the z5 but at 8mp lol.
I can do it at 16mp @ 2/3rds of your price.But the reality is that feature is for an extremely small user application.

Sony have advanced a few things with the A1,Canon will show them up 2nd quarter.

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 10:15 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
a Z8/9.
it'll be interesting to see if Nikon can catch up or surpass what the other 2 have?
02-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
LOL was my reaction.Its the model that's in the A1 Sony promo(the one that goes around 25mins.)

As long as they have a lens with a linear motor attached it does it ,and the subject doesn't move!Always wanted 30 shots the same for 6500 plus the 2500 for the phn that doubles as an external monitor!

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 10:09 AM ----------



I can do it at 16mp @ 2/3rds of your price.But the reality is that feature is for an extremely small user application.

Sony have advanced a few things with the A1,Canon will show them up 2nd quarter.

---------- Post added 02-07-21 at 10:15 AM ----------



it'll be interesting to see if Nikon can catch up or surpass what the other 2 have?
Yeah this is it for Nikon, they either make a splash or fade away. Unless lots of people buy them instead for the value, they are priced much lower than the R5/6 and have nicer viewfinders than the A7iii for now. I think they’ll probably have something decent with the Z8/9 though. They really need to beat their own D850 to get people over to Z mount.

I still think the Z line offers a lot for the price, but Nikon is not the best for mirrorless and that will hurt them if it becomes the constant. Right now if money were no object the R5 and L glass would be a sweet combo. I’m still very happy with what I’m getting from my 1200 dollar Z5 though. I don’t think I’d honestly get much more out of an R5 if I had one.


Last edited by LeeRunge; 02-06-2021 at 09:57 PM.
02-07-2021, 03:36 AM - 1 Like   #170
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This feels like the end of the film SLR era, when pocket auto cameras with power zoom lenses had gotten good enough to satisfy the mass consumer.
02-08-2021, 11:53 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Yeah this is it for Nikon, they either make a splash or fade away. Unless lots of people buy them instead for the value, they are priced much lower than the R5/6 and have nicer viewfinders than the A7iii for now. I think they’ll probably have something decent with the Z8/9 though. They really need to beat their own D850 to get people over to Z mount.

I still think the Z line offers a lot for the price, but Nikon is not the best for mirrorless and that will hurt them if it becomes the constant. Right now if money were no object the R5 and L glass would be a sweet combo. I’m still very happy with what I’m getting from my 1200 dollar Z5 though. I don’t think I’d honestly get much more out of an R5 if I had one.
Well said. My heart says go for Nikon Z7 (i only used Nikon in analogue days) but my head says Canon and Sony are ahead and pulling further away all the time, and their finances look more stable, too, particularly Canon's. A dark horse creeping up on Nikon for de facto #3 is Fuji. I don't much like Fuji's APS-C cameras but their new and low-priced (erm relatively) medium-format offerings sound amazing if more slow and considered photography is your thing. Nikon's slide over the past decade has been painful to watch. They can clearly make world-class kit but somehow the bigger picture never quite comes together.
02-09-2021, 12:16 AM   #172
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I'd say that it is now that MILC has matured quite a bit and really differences and where companies have put their main focus really does show up. Basically Sony laid footsteps and went through hard terrain to get where they are now. Only Canon has rivaled them in that 'game'.


Nikon is very good in terms of AF, but it is clearly not where Sony and Canon are. And in this game someone has said that only acceptable result are what that top level is, even if where Nikon is standin would be enough for many. (where Panasonic is it is not really that good, really, but many who shoot with Panasonic don't mind OTOH) This is the problem, you have to make things look sexy in some way to appeal customers to click the button. Many does buy now a days from online and won't propably even know at all what their gear will actually feel like, untill it is out of box. (influencers are important at there) One camera store who went online selling in first patch(they also have store where you can see and try) and their income went to other level. Owner said that it is unbelieveable how expensive cameras and gear people do order even with out ever seeing or holding then in their hands. Completelly different from past(that store is over 30 yrs. old).


So numbers like these cameras do affect buyers more and more.


If I'd ever go MILC, it would propably be either Canon or Sony. Nikon does appeal to me in many ways, but yeah.
02-09-2021, 01:36 AM   #173
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I believe the companies still are far away from bottoming out.

The main "positive" trend for them is existing (= older, more wealthy and due to experience with no reluctance to continue investing) customers swapping old gear versus new gear. And this is a one time effect.

It is a little like Covid infection rates versus death rates.

The impact of not gaining new, young customers, who only want to try out an ILC without selling a kidney will be felt years later, when these people should be / should have been the "old, more wealthy, experienced" guys.
There is a major time lag.

And DSLM are tiny incremental updates to DSLRs in all respects, they are large, heavy, super expensive dedicated cameras, where you have to change lenses all the times.
All the innovation is on phones, not ILC.

02-09-2021, 11:20 AM   #174
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The also believe we aren’t close to the end of this shrink in ILC sales across the board. The smartphones aren’t done yet.

Full range zooms coming with better image quality than the point and shoot zooms previously. Like they’ll work in low light. That’s probably why Nikon is not bothering with low end APS-C anymore with the kit zooms. Those users were not going to upgrade to a full frame later. Now they’ll just use a smartphone that can zoom as much.

I’m not sure where the bottom of the market is for the enthusiasts. I think the professional line of camera sales will probably remain pretty consistent. I can see silent shutter effecting DSLR pro cameras like the D6/1Dxiii as venues require it. That would make MILC de-facto the standard for press pool reporters for example if noise reduction is a thing at events.
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