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06-08-2019, 11:48 AM   #16
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Camera companies could diversify into camera related products and services , that would maintain revenues up but it would hurt profits because the problem with cameras is the shrinking number of photographers. The market for cameras shrinks because of the disappearance of wanabee photographers who owned a DSLR that's now collecting dust. That category of customers use their phone camera not to take photographs but to scan a document and snap a selfie to share with friends on social media and family members, that's not photography. Camera companies wouldn't venture into the smartphone business because they are small, it would require massive investments, an the chance of success is extremely low, it's already very crowded and has moved to China. Being Japanese you don't enter a mature market that has already shifted to China (Huawei). Camera companies just didn't see smartphone phenomenon coming, it's too late now. The best thing camera companies can do is to reduce their staff and get closer together with other brands for product design and manufacturing, which doesn't seem to happen.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-08-2019 at 11:54 AM.
06-08-2019, 11:53 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
WordPerfect (private company)
Even after MS Word took over the world and WordPerfect faded to the margins, WP is still lauded as a high-quality tool that gets out of the way of the user and lets them focus their attention to composing the task at hand. Sounds familiar, eh?
06-08-2019, 11:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
What's curious to me is why traditional camera companies aren't pushing harder into the smartphone
Because they don't have tons of money to lose?
Sony's mobile division is not doing well at all.
06-08-2019, 12:32 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I mean, who would invest thousands of dollars into a system and mount with this poor outlook?
Well, had I the necessary thousands, I would. Let's see, a smaller, lighter but still very high resolution (45 MP) camera which takes three first-rate lightweight (f/4, mostly) lenses to cover 14 to 300mm and chuck in a lighter full-height tripod and I'd be covered for landscape meanderings for the rest of my days. Job done.

Since I don't have the necessary, I'm sticking to the existing (Pentax) DSLR. And learning to use it effectively. What do you think photography is about?

06-08-2019, 01:01 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Even after MS Word took over the world and WordPerfect faded to the margins, WP is still lauded as a high-quality tool that gets out of the way of the user and lets them focus their attention to composing the task at hand. Sounds familiar, eh?
The GUI is what really ended the first wave of character-based independent software companies. Microsoft withheld the code formats until they had established an insurmountable position. I was forced by corporate IT to abandon WP, Quattro Pro, Paradox, Borland C++ and I still miss them. They were simply better software than Microsoft.
06-08-2019, 01:14 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The GUI is what really ended the first wave of character-based independent software companies. Microsoft withheld the code formats until they had established an insurmountable position. I was forced by corporate IT to abandon WP, Quattro Pro, Paradox, Borland C++ and I still miss them. They were simply better software than Microsoft.
I still miss the days of CP/M 2.2, ASM (the assembler) and WordStar
06-08-2019, 01:17 PM - 3 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I still miss the days of CP/M 2.2, ASM (the assembler) and WordStar
I'm sure I have a bunch of punch cards somewhere...
06-08-2019, 01:44 PM - 3 Likes   #23
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The Brownie didn't bring an end to quality photography equipment. The Instamatic didn't bring and end to the SLR. Someone above mentioned the smartphone camera as the P&S of this era and I agree. SLR cameras were always a niche item, even the K1000 in its day, until around the late 80s when plastic fantastic fully auto SLR cameras became genuine consumer items to be disposed of upon release of the next piece of plastic.

I guess there are a lot of folks alive today who don't realize that there was a time when owning an SLR was a big deal; not something for the great unwashed. There was a time when owning an SLR was a sign of status not particularly related to wealth; it was I think mostly a symbol of one's skill and dedication to something that required the acquisition of a certain level of knowledge in order to participate. Back then, many people who could afford to buy an SLR could never learned how to properly use it.

Any camera company that's gotten too big to get small again and return to it's original core business is indeed going to be a casualty. I think the golden age of digital (and for that matter film) cameras is right now as a result of the smartphone. Quality "obsolete" digital cameras are a dime a dozen right now due to smartphone dominance. The great thing about getting a used digital today is the lemons are gone or being sold as "parts" cameras.

As time marches on, camera companies are going to return to their core business or fail. They are going to have to produce quality cameras for discerning enthusiasts and professionals; two groups that will never disappear from the camera market.

06-08-2019, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The camera manufacturers are all very weak on the software side, which more and more becomes key in any digitized industry.
Indeed. Especially on the Android/iOS side of things.

And on the PC, it shocks me, for example, that not only Pentax, but also Nikon and Fuji for some reason insist on bundling a Silkypix-made horror as their default RAW processor.
06-08-2019, 02:29 PM - 9 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
I'm sure I have a bunch of punch cards somewhere...
I work in government, and we still use the microfiche reader for older records (pre 2006 is considered "older" in my work world). We often have "younger" folks come in looking for information, and it's a hoot watching the expressions on their faces when they're directed to the microfiche reader, LOL!!! Most think its an antique computer, and almost all ask how they login to the device. And it's an even bigger shock once they're shown how to use the thing Almost makes it worth going to work in the morning
06-08-2019, 02:49 PM - 3 Likes   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by david94903 Quote
I work in government, and we still use the microfiche reader for older records (pre 2006 is considered "older" in my work world). We often have "younger" folks come in looking for information, and it's a hoot watching the expressions on their faces when they're directed to the microfiche reader, LOL!!! Most think its an antique computer, and almost all ask how they login to the device. And it's an even bigger shock once they're shown how to use the thing Almost makes it worth going to work in the morning
There's so much to enjoy in this post, I don't know where to begin... I was going to chop it into sections and reply to individual comments, leaving out the superfluous bits... But the entire post is to be treasured
06-08-2019, 03:58 PM   #27
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Currently APS-C / FF cameras are offering:
* Great control of what and how you are capturing (fast lenses, range of focal lengths etc)
* Photographer oriented ergonomics (not to be underestimated)
* Leading Image Quality (including resolution, high ISO, colour accuracy)

And thats enough for a chunk of the customer base. BUT I do think they are missing some potential with interacting with other modern technology. I think mirrorless is a bit of side show at the moment (it has its pluses and minuses but no doubt will find its way into more and more cameras over time - but perhaps for different reasons).
I think interacting with other devices might be more important. For example I love my K1 but have been quite disappointed with the mobile app (which I can't even get to go at the moment - but not trying too hard as the app seemed to have stagnated anyway). So clearly this is area is not a big focus but it should be IMO. I'm like most, and love to play with new technology toys and its certainly an advantage to be able to use my new "X" phone to be able to interact with my camera in a meaningful way. I can think of quite a few ways the mobile processing power could potentially add value to the camera - but in some ways It doesn't even really matter that its not a feature you use a lot, as its still something you might like to show off to your friends (which in turn sells itself). A lot of mobile phone features are more toys really but it still helps sell them.
06-08-2019, 04:03 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
While that is true, it is too short and doesn't address the question "what to adapt to".

Sony did once adapt to change and they went down the brand new Betamax route ...
The issue with Betamax wasn't not adapting to change. Sony, already in the transistor TV business that RCA (remember that name?) wouldn't embrace because their new tube plant hadn't paid for itself yet, invented Betamax and refused to license it to the other companies diving into the surging interest in TV video recording. So Sony's competitors came up with a less expensive (and lower quality) scheme called VHS. I won't waste everyone's time on the merits of Betamax and and Sony's video recorder capabilities by the time the SL-2700 was manufactured, but rather than a Darwin example, as manifested by RCA, what occurred to Sony was a technology example of Gresham's Law: The bad drives out the good (originally applied to coinage).

In other news, Sony spent a lot of effort bringing R, G, and B OLEDs to some level of maturity for use in flat panel TVs. But LG has taken over most of that market by using single color OLEDs with white phosphors and color filters. Sony likely can never reach LG's manufacturing cost for an acceptable TV screen even if their emitters have better color purity.

The second mouse gets the cheese.
06-08-2019, 06:50 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote

The second mouse gets the cheese.
Often the case. Cryptocurrencies are obviously the way of the future but it definitely won't be Bitcoin.



06-08-2019, 11:50 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Indeed. Especially on the Android/iOS side of things.

And on the PC, it shocks me, for example, that not only Pentax, but also Nikon and Fuji for some reason insist on bundling a Silkypix-made horror as their default RAW processor.
For Fujifilm you now get specialized Capture One Express/Pro Fujifilm versions as alternative - although these will cost some bucks.
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