[mecrox]

Wow. For the body price of the S1r alone you could buy a K-1 II, DFA 28-105, and DFA * 70-200.

I understand the build is nice, but it's nice on the K-1 II. The Panasonic feels way over priced for what it is and if they sell many of them, I would be shocked.

People are always shocked by how much others are prepared to pay for something they want but one doesn't. A $100 million yacht, anyone? All that matters to the manufacturer is that enough of a market does want it and is prepped to pony up. I doubt Panny are expecting to sell oodles of the S1R but as always they only need enough people ... and so far as I can make out, it is a very fine piece of engineering. There is still a lot of money around in some parts of the world, even if not in the old West.

[Rondec]

People are always shocked by how much others are prepared to pay for something they want but one doesn't. A $100 million yacht, anyone? All that matters to the manufacturer is that enough of a market does want it and is prepped to pony up. I doubt Panny are expecting to sell oodles of the S1R but as always they only need enough people ... and so far as I can make out, it is a very fine piece of engineering. There is still a lot of money around in some parts of the world, even if not in the old West.

But what does it offer that a D850 doesn't? And you can use Leica and Sigma lenses on any mirrorless camera out there. And Sigma's are pretty much all available in F mount. Not sure I follow your reasoning connecting a 4000 dollar full frame camera to a 100 million dollar yacht, but carry on...

[mecrox]

But what does it offer that a D850 doesn't? And you can use Leica and Sigma lenses on any mirrorless camera out there. And Sigma's are pretty much all available in F mount. Not sure I follow your reasoning connecting a 4000 dollar full frame camera to a 100 million dollar yacht, but carry on...

You're mixing up mirrorless and DLSR. Others make a clearer distinction. As I said, if someone wants something and they can afford it they'll by it, whether an S1R or a $100 million yacht. Outrageous to some, chump change to others. The usage cases and value judgements made by those not in the target audience are irrelevant. The manufacturer only needs enough folks in the segment they're aiming the product towards ...

[btnapa]

I understand the build is nice, but it's nice on the K-1 II. The Panasonic feels way over priced for what it is and if they sell many of them, I would be shocked.

I agree 100%. However, the Panasonic is going to appeal to the photographers who want to do 4K video. The S1R is way too rich for my blood, that is why for my 4K video needs I have gone to Fuji and I love the system for what it does including still images. For the ultimate image quality, I still have my K1 and my Pentax lenses. Hopefully, Pentax will catch up with the video world and I can go back to one system again.

---------- Post added 06-11-19 at 07:04 AM ----------

The inferior products from Nikon make more customers run away in a month that Pentax has in total.

Trust me, there is nothing inferior about Nikon. I shot their film cameras and I have shot their digital D800, D750, D7200 with a bunch of modern lenses. The image quality is superior and their lenses are legendary. The only thing that I don't like and never liked about Nikon was their interface (GUI). I think Pentax's interface is much simpler and more user friendly. The reason Pentax and Nikon images are so similar and equally stellar is because they both use Sony sensors which is the heart of any digital image making machine. We can go on comparing camera systems all day but at the end of the day, they are all good with differences.

[normhead]

I agree 100%. However, the Panasonic is going to appeal to the photographers who want to do 4K video. The S1R is way too rich for my blood, that is why for my 4K video needs I have gone to Fuji and I love the system for what it does including still images. For the ultimate image quality, I still have my K1 and my Pentax lenses. Hopefully, Pentax will catch up with the video world and I can go back to one system again.

---------- Post added 06-11-19 at 07:04 AM ----------



Trust me, there is nothing inferior about Nikon. I shot their film cameras and I have shot their digital D800, D750, D7200 with a bunch of modern lenses. The image quality is superior and their lenses are legendary. The only thing that I don't like and never liked about Nikon was their interface (GUI). I think Pentax's interface is much simpler and more user friendly. The reason Pentax and Nikon images are so similar and equally stellar is because they both use Sony sensors which is the heart of any digital image making machine. We can go on comparing camera systems all day but at the end of the day, they are all good with differences.

Exactly, my Nikon and Canon shooting buddies see my images and often like them, but I like their images so we're even, and nobody switches. No one sees a benefit that would make it worth the hassle of switching systems. And the people I know who have cheaper systems than what Pentax makes are very happy with those systems. They are not as rugged as Pentax gear, but they use them 3 or 4 times a year so why would they pay for that? They won't use their camera in 10 years as much as I do in 3 months, they don't need rugged.

People keep telling us if Pentax did this or that they'd have more market share. But the large majority of camera buyers do their homework before buying or at least get steered towards a system that they can live with. And the vast majority of customers stick with that initial decision. And while 50% of K-1 users camera from other brands, that was a rare circumstance based on being by far the best value for a 36x24 sensor at 36 MP. And some of those folks are switching back. What they got, just didn't satisfy them as much in the big picture as what they owned before. When you buy into a system, you also buy into the way it works. There are probably 10 little things you assumed the system you switch to has, (because your old system had it), that it doesn't, and it's quite and you discover it's something you just can't give up. People who buy based solely on price are probably those most likely to be unhappy with the brand. But even then, it's very small percentage.

[rawr]

The only thing that I don't like and never liked about Nikon was their interface (GUI).

Agreed. But what annoys me most about Nikon is that their lens mount/change buttons are on the wrong side of the camera body (compared to Pentax, Sony E and even Fuji). It's very confusing and very wrong.

[Merv-O]

Exactly, my Nikon and Canon shooting buddies see my images and often like them, but I like their images so we're even, and nobody switches. No one sees a benefit that would make it worth the hassle of switching systems. And the people I know who have cheaper systems than what Pentax makes are very happy with those systems. They are not as rugged as Pentax gear, but they use them 3 or 4 times a year so why would they pay for that? They won't use their camera in 10 years as much as I do in 3 months, they don't need rugged.

People keep telling us if Pentax did this or that they'd have more market share. But the large majority of camera buyers do their homework before buying or at least get steered towards a system that they can live with. And the vast majority of customers stick with that initial decision. And while 50% of K-1 users camera from other brands, that was a rare circumstance based on being by far the best value for a 36x24 sensor at 36 MP. And some of those folks are switching back. What they got, just didn't satisfy them as much in the big picture as what they owned before. When you buy into a system, you also buy into the way it works. There are probably 10 little things you assumed the system you switch to has, (because your old system had it), that it doesn't, and it's quite and you discover it's something you just can't give up. People who buy based solely on price are probably those most likely to be unhappy with the brand. But even then, it's very small percentage.

People who buy based solely on price are probably those most likely to be unhappy with the brand.

Norm: this point cuts both ways: sometimes you pay too much and get less and that causes unhappiness too. Every one of my Pentax bodies was a perceived good deal for me and I feel they are more than fast enough to capture sports, wildlife and avaiation shots. True that Pentaxians need to utilize a bit more skill than the virtual point n shooters the Canikonony oligarchy regularly streams out to their (ever decreasing) market share, but I use Leicas that are totally manual and still capture fast scenes.


If you have good technique, if you understand what your objective is, then you can use a box camera and produce decent results. I know many people who were curious about my camera equipment and presumed that it was merely a large phone camera. ISO, step down, depth of field, manual focus peaking....all lost on the iPhone/Android set. Perhaps that's why Pentax market share stays consistently small and steady while the Big 3 are losing market share.

[btnapa]

And while 50% of K-1 users camera from other brands, that was a rare circumstance based on being by far the best value for a 36x24 sensor at 36 MP

I agree wholeheartedly. I added Fuji to do video and fell in love with the system. I was ready to let go of my Pentax gear but after seeing the atrocious resale values, I decided to keep most of my Pentax gear. My ideal set up was going to be an everyday system and a medium format (645Z or similar). After much thought and shooting my Pentax K1 alongside my Fuji X series bodies, I have come to the conclusion that the Fuji is my everyday system and K1 is my medium format camera! I do not like having a dual system but I can work with this set up for now until Pentax catches up with video and possibly mirrorless. I know the shortcomings of my K1 but despite its shortcomings, I still love my K1. The feel, and confidence you get from holding a K1 and shooting with my FA lenses is hard to describe to people who are not familiar with the Pentax system... and to know that I am getting images that are the closest thing to medium format makes me feel that I have a bargain to boot.

[normhead]

If you have good technique, if you understand what your objective is, then you can use a box camera and produce decent results

There seem to be an awful to of people who simply cannot comprehend this. When it's said all they hear is "blah, blah blah". One of our posters is recommending an A9 for weddings. My cousin made an average of $5000 a wedding 1980 money shooting a manual focus Hassleblad. He was doing 48x36 prints on canvas, before I knew you could print on canvas. Those of us who have been around a while know that depending on the AF of camera for focus does not produce the same type of image my cousin produced. My cousin insisted on a lot more control over the final product than you're ever going to get using eye tracking. So an photographer with a clipped work flow may enjoy the eye AF etc. but that work will never compare to what my cousin did with his Hasslebald.

There is constant conflict on this site between those who claim you need to change brands for this that or the other, and those who encourage people to learn to do what they want with what they have.

[btnapa]

Agreed. But what annoys me most about Nikon is that their lens mount/change buttons are on the wrong side of the camera body (compared to Pentax, Sony E and even Fuji). It's very confusing and very wrong.

Yes that is another one of Nikon's annoyances. Then again this is mighty Nikon. The same Nikon that has been the staple of National Geographic photographers for decades. I do not like many things they do but I cannot forget that they are responsible for some of the most iconic images ever created.

[normhead]

... and to know that I am getting images that are the closest thing to medium format makes me feel that I have a bargain to boot.

The K-1 has completely cured my urge to go medium format. even though I have couple of 645 lenses in my drawer waiting for a cheap 654D, from 5 years ago, I'm happy with my K-1. I used to have $2000 in the bank waiting for one to appear on the second hand market. At some point I decided, I'd rather have more lenses.

[LaurenOE]

The K-1 has completely cured my urge to go medium format. even though I have couple of 645 lenses in my drawer waiting for a cheap 654D, from 5 years ago, I'm happy with my K-1. I used to have $2000 in the bank waiting for one to appear on the second hand market. At some point I decided, I'd rather have more lenses.

Norm...lemme tell ya...the 645z will blow you out of the water with how beautiful and clean the images comes out of the camera. I was not prepared. Stunning.

[btnapa]

I have couple of 645 lenses in my drawer waiting for a cheap 654D

It is funny. I did the same thing. I bought a FA45-85, FA200 and an A120 macro in anticipation of a 645Z someday. Since 645 never happened so I sold the 45-85. I still have the FA200 and a the A120. I might sell the FA200 at some point but I will never sell the A120 macro as I am using it with both my K1 and my Fuji bodies with stunning results.

---------- Post added 06-11-19 at 09:25 AM ----------

Norm...lemme tell ya...the 645z will blow you out of the water with how beautiful and clean the images comes out of the camera. I was not prepared. Stunning.

Lauren, stop it. You are killing me! I was at WPPI the year Jim Malcolm gave away three 645Z and 55mm packages. I was hoping to win one but it did not happen. It burned me to learn that two out of the three winners sold their prized 645Z package online. They did not know or care about owning a 645Z. What a waste.

[Dan Rentea]

I'd rather have more lenses.

Regarding lenses, it seems that in this regard Sony has managed to listen their customers. With the just announced 200-600mm lens Sony is going to attract lots of people, at least among the ones who already shoot or planning to shoot with mirrorless. Canon has a 100-400mm lens, Pentax has 150-450mm lens, Nikon has 200-500mm lens. There are Tamron/Sigma 150-600mm lenses for Canon/Nikon, but Sony did a smart move with a native lens that cover the 200-600mm range.

And the 600mm f4 looks beautiful and light compared to Nikon.

As I said, if someday I will move to mirrorless, the lenses will be the ones that will make me jump ship.

Sony Unveils 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 and 600mm f/4 Super-Tele Lenses

[biz-engineer]

Regarding lenses, it seems that in this regard Sony has managed to listen their customers. With the just announced 200-600mm lens Sony is going to attract lots of people

Sony look like innovative when they release lens lines that Canon and Nikon have had for a decade or two. That's the magic of reinventing the wheel after everyone had the wheel already, and looking like the number one brand of ILC cameras.