[clackers]

The Devices segment (FY2012 - FY2015) was made of the semiconductor, battery and storage media businesses. Camera modules for smartphones were part of it

Ah, thanks, Mistral, I see now that was it sensors for phones!

[clackers]

Since a few years and indeed under the pressure of activist investors Sony are establishing intermediate holding companies

Exactly, their priorities are not cameras but profit returns.

Camera businesses have had either plunging profits or big losses and anyone looking to increase wealth has better places to park their money.

Loeb has got a lot of money in Sony and doesn't want to be burdened by them.

[Yoda boy]

Looking at the camera industry as a whole, the largest players are most at risk. They have high inventory, high expectations, high fixed cost issues and with the ongoing industry wide decrease in sales, the most to lose. Similarly, the Sigma and Tamron lens manufacturers must be facing similar concerns. On the other hand, Pentax products are already a niche category and while the development of new products is not as intense as with Canon, Nikon and Sony, plus a few others, they are therefore possibly insulated from the huge declines that the majors are and will continue to experience. The new K3.3 might turn out to be a great product in the hands of those who would likely most use it: namely, current Pentaxians who have mainly supported the APS-C format. While the intro price for the K3.3 seems quite high, especially when compared to the price of a K1.2, there may be a very astute reason for this. Perhaps Ricoh has already priced in the niche category pricing that may prove to be very appropriate and help sustain relative success vs. the big three brands. It would also follow that an updated K1 might also be in the works for two or three years down the road. The recent action of patents for another APS-C body ( possibly geared more towards video? ) also makes a lot of sense. While many seem to be very happy with their current bodies, mostly K3's ( myself included ), I still think that there is potential for new sales of these developing items. It may not be as fast as previously ( and the reason for the higher pricing? ) but it does seem to reasonably reflect the new commercial realities of DSLR cameras. Not going into mirrorless definitely separates Pentax in the differentiation war that dedicated camera manufacturers likely have to pursue.

I am also reminded of the surprises that occur completely unexpectedly, such as drive-in theatres having a resurgence and vinyl record sales surging. Who would have thought?

I am also positive about the future of Pentax because as the majors experience sales and related losses, people may become less brand blind and more open to looking for safer alternatives. If people fear that Nikon could be gone in a few years time, would they really want to invest in that system and incur future headaches? That fear could create the reality. Pentaxians, being such strong supporters of Pentax products, could literally come out of the woodwork and create a grassroots movement towards the brand.

The future is unknown, but I personally don't think that Ricoh is necessarily taking the wrong path. It could be very astute and sustainable. We'll just have to wait and see.

[clackers]

Similarly, the Sigma and Tamron lens manufacturers must be facing similar concerns.

I agree with your thoughts, Yoda boy.

I've just read in another thread that Tamron, who not only make third party for several mounts but actually make lenses for Sony, face a 58% drop in revenue for 2020.

They're looking to get rid of 40% of their Japanese factory workers, they've been smashed in the face.

[Mistral75]

(...)

I've just read in another thread that Tamron, who not only make third party for several mounts but actually make lenses for Sony, face a 58% drop in revenue for 2020.

(...)

In net income, dear friend, in net income.

Tamron forecast a 21% drop in revenue in 2020, a 59.9% drop in operating income and a 58.1% drop in ordinary income.

As a basis for comparison, here below the yearly forecasts made by the other listed groups involved in the photographic sector:

• Canon: revenue -12% - operating income -63.4% - net income -58.4%
• Fujifilm: revenue -4.5% - operating income -23.4% - net income stable
• Nikon: revenue -27.2% - operating loss
• Olympus: no forecast yet; they will publish their FY2020 Q2 financial results tomorrow
• Panasonic: revenue -13.2% - operating income -48.9% - net income -55.7%
• Ricoh: revenue -17.2% - operating loss
• Sony: revenue +2.9% - operating income -17.2% - net income +37.4%

[Alex645]

[*]Sony: revenue +2.9% - operating income -17.2% - net income +37.4%[/LIST]

I guess it helps to launch a hot new Playstation 5 and all the licensing income from video game developers and peripherals.

[Mistral75]

I guess it helps to launch a hot new Playstation 5 and all the licensing income from video game developers and peripherals.

Covid-19 and lockdown help the gaming business, that's for sure.

[BigMackCam]

Covid-19 and lockdown help the gaming business, that's for sure.

... routers, mesh wifi systems, web-cams and printers, too.

[Mistral75]

... routers, mesh wifi systems, web-cams and printers, too.

Those too but Sony don't sell many of them. Gaming equipment, on the other hand...

[edri]

In net income, dear friend, in net income.

....[*]Ricoh: revenue -17.2% - operating loss
.......[/LIST]

I don't understand what Ricoh is about. The parent company with all the activities, or Ricoh Imaging, or just the part that deals with DSLR? Until now, it was said that Ricoh Imaging is doing well. It was said that Theta, GR are doing well and from that profit they get to support the DSLR part, and even stay with something extra after that. What is the reality really? Is Ricoh Imaging having financial problems or not?

[Alex645]

I don't understand what Ricoh is about. The parent company with all the activities, or Ricoh Imaging, or just the part that deals with DSLR? Until now, it was said that Ricoh Imaging is doing well. What is the reality really? Is Ricoh Imaging having financial problems or not?

Those numbers I believe represent the entire Japanese multinational. Just last year, Ricoh started a partnership with Cisco and that will only strengthen their position. Pentax is only a small part of the Ricoh Imaging Company.

It's 2020 and most corporations are struggling because of the pandemic. A few are doing extremely well and the stock market is an indicator of the volatility of our times.

Ricoh continues to slowly but surely release new Pentax lenses and cameras. I don't see Ricoh liquidating their assets or any rumors of them merging with a competitor.

But to make an analogy with motorcycles: Ricoh is like Yamaha whereas Hasselblad is like Harley-Davidson. Yamaha not only makes motorcycles, but also ATVs, golf carts, snowmobiles, jet skis, guitars, pianos, and electronic keyboards, etc. Harley only makes motorcycles, Hasselblad only makes imaging equipment and is now a minority partner with DJI.

So during the pandemic, Yamaha will take losses in their motor division but probably do well in musical instrument sales. Nikon may be taking losses, but they are owned by the Mitsubishi Group with fingers in lots of pies. The Japanese government is no more likely to let Mitsubishi and Nikon sink as the US government for Boeing or GM.

[Mistral75]

I don't understand what Ricoh is about. The parent company with all the activities, or Ricoh Imaging, or just the part that deals with DSLR? Until now, it was said that Ricoh Imaging is doing well. It was said that Theta, GR are doing well and from that profit they get to support the DSLR part, and even stay with something extra after that. What is the reality really? Is Ricoh Imaging having financial problems or not?

Ricoh is the Ricoh group.

Ricoh Imaging was doing well until a certain SARS-Cov-2 came and disturbed many business plans.

Their comments in their latest financial reporting:

H1 Overview

• Revenues and earnings dropped owing to de-consolidation of leasing business and downturns in Smart Vision and Industrial Products businesses

Q2 Overview

• Sales of existing business sales increased YoY and profit margins improved in Smart Vision business, for steady recovery after bottoming in Q1
• Smart Vision: Solid performances of THETA and related cloud services amid rising demand for 360° cameras

[beholder3]

Nikon numbers are out:

• ILC Camera sales FY20/3 versus 21/3 forecast: Drop from 1,620,000 to 850,000 --> -48%
• Lens sales FY20/3 versus 21/3 forecast: Drop from 2,650,000 to 1,400,000 --> -47%

see: https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Forecast-for-the-Imaging-...s-1536x853.png

I am not aware of any other company I know that looses customers that fast.

[Mistral75]

^ The complete picture (see https://www.nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/result/pdf/2021/21third_all_e.pdf page 16):



ILC unit sales forecast:

• Market (as estimated by Nikon): minus 33.1%
• Nikon: minus 47.5%

Interchangeable lens unit sales forecast :

• Market (as estimated by Nikon): minus 34.2%
• Nikon: minus 47.2%

Compact camera unit sales forecast:

• Market (as estimated by Nikon): minus 43.5%
• Nikon: minus 70.2%

Nikon's Imaging Products revenue forecast: minus 35.8%.

Having a decrease in revenue of 35.8% 'only' whilst your unit sales are dropping by around 50% means an increase of 28% in the average selling price of your products. The data reported by Nikon show that, during the last quarter (October-December), there was a 50% increase in average selling price.

Nikon are moving upmarket. Fast.

[Pål Jensen]

^

Having a decrease in revenue of 35.8% 'only' whilst your unit sales are dropping by around 50% means an increase of 28% in the average selling price of your products. The data reported by Nikon show that, during the last quarter (October-December), there was a 50% increase in average selling price.

Nikon are moving upmarket. Fast.

Isn't that just a natural consequence of a 70% reduction of P&S sales?