Camera marketing jokes

**Rondec** · 06-12-2019, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by kaseki

One would expect that a Fresnel lens, even a perfectly constructed one, would have higher aberrations than a smooth surface lens of the same base curvature, and this would be further degraded off-axis where the side walls of each annular section are included in some of the light paths. Computational post-processing may be able to address much of this, but (a), surely it is not presently in all cameras that might use the Fresnel lenses, and (b), even with extravagant processing, there would be some residual effects that might show up as haze or blur. Without seeing actual measurement results showing Fresnel lens effects can be made negligible, I wouldn't myself recommend Pentax leap into that pit. And my Pentax systems have the most weight to lose. [Obligatory joke]

In the above comment, I want to note that I am not considering a diamond turned lens to be a Fresnel lens, because diamond turned lenses have annular cut widths smaller than the wavelength of the light being refracted, thereby minimizing in-band scatter, and in their case I think the summation integral of the point spread function is pretty much additive into the desired circular aperture PSF, at least insofar as pixels 10X the wavelength can measure.

Everything has a trade off. I just am looking for something that will maintain decent image quality while leaving size manageable. I just thought that the reviews of the Nikon 300mm f4 didn't show any major down side and did show a significant decrease in size.

**kaseki** · 06-12-2019, 06:03 PM

I will restrain my unbounded curiosity until I can research the topic more thoroughly than the half-hearted stab I made today.

virusn3t · 06-12-2019, 10:47 PM

Im just waiting for the release of the DFA*85, and see if i can afford it... if not, those FA*85 will drop in price,,as far as this lenses, they're out of any use for me, maybe only to brag about have a very big lens (i more inclined to portrait, and the DFA*70-200 (and DFA*50 and FA77ltd) is more than enough

35mmfilmfan · 06-13-2019, 02:13 AM

I'm really grateful so many people are being seduced (Oooooh, Matron !) by all the marketing hype. Once they have assuaged their purchasing desires, their old kit will come on the market at prices I can afford, and I think it unlikely that any improvement in IQ will be worth what they are spending.

Paul the Sunman · 06-13-2019, 02:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I guess Nikon have found ways to work around that.

Yes, but it's in their Capture NX-D RAW processing software: PF Flare Control.

lukulele · 06-14-2019, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by normhead

When you've heard folks argue they didn't need TTL metering or Auto-aperture and look at the things people say you "need" today, like 60 fps etc, you have real perspective on what a load of nonsense modern marketing is for a lot of shooters.

No one today would dream of introducing a new model without TTL or auto aperture, yet at one time they were deemed ignorable by brand owners to whom they were not available. And now folks claim 4 fps isn't good enough.

We used to get a frame every 10 seconds. And it was good enough.

Read the light meter, set the aperture on the lens and shutter speed on the camera, check the DoF guide, calculate your hyperlocal, recheck the light to make sure it hadn't changed, take the picture.

Thanks Norm,
That still describes me with a KP or a K3 or K5 or K7 or Q or.................

normhead · 06-14-2019, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by lukulele

Thanks Norm,
That still describes me with a KP or a K3 or K5 or K7 or Q or.................

I have two modes these days... first, get something, snap off a few frames to make use you have something to work with. Then set up and do the "prefect" shot if you have time. Modern cameras make the first part really easy. The second part, optimizing your exposure for your scene still takes time.

xmeda · 12-02-2019, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by virusn3t

Im just waiting for the release of the DFA*85, and see if i can afford it... if not, those FA*85 will drop in price,,as far as this lenses, they're out of any use for me, maybe only to brag about have a very big lens (i more inclined to portrait, and the DFA*70-200 (and DFA*50 and FA77ltd) is more than enough

I don't believe that FA*85/1.4 price can drop. It will increase even if new DFA*85/1.4 is introduced. Why? Simply because it is no longer manufactured. And prepare for the price of new lens. It won't be cheap... I bet that you'll be able to buy two mint condition FA*85/1.4 for the price of single DFA*85/1.4..

Class A · 12-03-2019, 03:35 AM

DPReview have undoubtedly helped to promote mirrorless technology.

They downplay the problems with mirrorless technology and tend to be most critical regarding mirrorless issues when talking about older models in reviews of newer models if the latter have improved on these particular downsides.

I believe their enthusiasm for mirrorless technology is fuelled from a number of sources:

They are not serious photographers. Whenever they contribute to sample galleries, etc. one sees pretty mediocre work, often even below average. They are more gadget-oriented and therefore focus more on superficial specs than actual usability.
Anything "new" is more easily sold. It is easier to talk about a novelty feature than to deeply understand which camera supports which workflow best.
Subconsciously or not, I'm sure they know that helping to move more inventory is looked upon favourably by their Amazon overlords. Hyping mirrorless technology beyond what is reasonable helps to not only sell new cameras, but has the potential to make a lot of existing customers renew their existing lens lineups. The fact that these new cameras require customers to re-buy their lens collections -- adapters are mentioned as a plus for MILCs but we all know what a pain they are and that only native lenses deliver all the features and performance of the new systems -- is a huge draw to manufacturers and review sites alike. I'm sure the former don't hinder the latter to sing the praise of the new technology as best as they can...

DPReview is not a small operation. There a quite a number of people involved which cost a lot of money in salaries. While Amazon can surely afford the respective expenses, it wouldn't make much business sense to keep the operation running if it didn't pay for itself.

I guess this explains why a new Sony camera receives about ten articles and why the serious criticism is best found in so-called "opinion pieces" that are almost sure to be overlooked by prospective buyers.

Class A · 12-03-2019, 09:35 PM

Another joke recently made was to headline the fact that Sony took a slight lead in BCN sales statistics with respect to FF in Japan as "Sony overtakes Canon and Nikon to dominate the full-frame camera market in Japan" (emphasis is mine). They now toned it down to "Sony overtakes Canon and Nikon to lead the full-frame camera market in Japan.".

BTW, does anyone know what the following graph shows on the Y-axis?

I'm assuming it shows camera sales, but I'm not sure. Perhaps just ILC camera sales?
Although the graph for sure doesn't show FF sales in Japan, it provides some useful context to both the original and updated DPReview headlines. There was never a case of "dominating" to start with but even "leading" doesn't sound quite as nice anymore when considering the big picture.

dangtrangiabao · 01-09-2020, 01:20 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

BTW, does anyone know what the following graph shows on the Y-axis?
.

Yes it shows camera sales worldwide. The 2019 numbers are expected sales

Kunzite · 01-09-2020, 02:16 AM - **1 Like**

The Y-axis reads 10,000 units

Mistral75 · 01-09-2020, 03:31 AM - **1 Like**

^ Myriad, an ancient unit still used in East Asia and India.

**kaseki** · 01-09-2020, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

^ Myriad, an ancient unit still used in East Asia and India.

Thanks, Mistral. I was aware of the kanji symbol for 10k, but was unaware of the geographical range of usage of that numbering partition, or (until I just looked it up), that myriad archaically meant exactly 10k. Never too old to learn, or to forget.

**Serkevan** · 01-17-2020, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by kaseki

Thanks, Mistral. I was aware of the kanji symbol for 10k, but was unaware of the geographical range of usage of that numbering partition, or (until I just looked it up), that myriad archaically meant exactly 10k. Never too old to learn, or to forget.

When I was a kid and we were taught the units of measure, we were told "miriámetro" (in Spanish) was 10k m. Never used it afterwards, but now the geographic use is up to the Mediterranean I guess

I know that in India they use Lakh for 100000 and Crore for 10 million, but that's because one crore is 100 lakh.

Numeric systems are fun.

12-03-2019, 03:35 AM	#24
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	DPReview have undoubtedly helped to promote mirrorless technology. They downplay the problems with mirrorless technology and tend to be most critical regarding mirrorless issues when talking about older models in reviews of newer models if the latter have improved on these particular downsides. I believe their enthusiasm for mirrorless technology is fuelled from a number of sources: They are not serious photographers. Whenever they contribute to sample galleries, etc. one sees pretty mediocre work, often even below average. They are more gadget-oriented and therefore focus more on superficial specs than actual usability. Anything "new" is more easily sold. It is easier to talk about a novelty feature than to deeply understand which camera supports which workflow best. Subconsciously or not, I'm sure they know that helping to move more inventory is looked upon favourably by their Amazon overlords. Hyping mirrorless technology beyond what is reasonable helps to not only sell new cameras, but has the potential to make a lot of existing customers renew their existing lens lineups. The fact that these new cameras require customers to re-buy their lens collections -- adapters are mentioned as a plus for MILCs but we all know what a pain they are and that only native lenses deliver all the features and performance of the new systems -- is a huge draw to manufacturers and review sites alike. I'm sure the former don't hinder the latter to sing the praise of the new technology as best as they can... DPReview is not a small operation. There a quite a number of people involved which cost a lot of money in salaries. While Amazon can surely afford the respective expenses, it wouldn't make much business sense to keep the operation running if it didn't pay for itself. I guess this explains why a new Sony camera receives about ten articles and why the serious criticism is best found in so-called "opinion pieces" that are almost sure to be overlooked by prospective buyers.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Keyboard Jokes	bertwert	General Talk	1	06-22-2015 01:03 PM
Its been said, theorised and used in jokes....cooking an omelette with an ipad	Reportage	General Talk	15	03-31-2012 08:29 AM
Post your awful photography jokes here.	unixrevolution	General Talk	35	01-01-2011 05:25 PM
Jokes...	euzha	General Talk	0	01-26-2008 07:57 AM
Telling jokes....	clarenceclose	Post Your Photos!	5	03-16-2007 08:30 AM

06-12-2019, 01:40 PM	#16
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by kaseki One would expect that a Fresnel lens, even a perfectly constructed one, would have higher aberrations than a smooth surface lens of the same base curvature, and this would be further degraded off-axis where the side walls of each annular section are included in some of the light paths. Computational post-processing may be able to address much of this, but (a), surely it is not presently in all cameras that might use the Fresnel lenses, and (b), even with extravagant processing, there would be some residual effects that might show up as haze or blur. Without seeing actual measurement results showing Fresnel lens effects can be made negligible, I wouldn't myself recommend Pentax leap into that pit. And my Pentax systems have the most weight to lose. [Obligatory joke] In the above comment, I want to note that I am not considering a diamond turned lens to be a Fresnel lens, because diamond turned lenses have annular cut widths smaller than the wavelength of the light being refracted, thereby minimizing in-band scatter, and in their case I think the summation integral of the point spread function is pretty much additive into the desired circular aperture PSF, at least insofar as pixels 10X the wavelength can measure. Everything has a trade off. I just am looking for something that will maintain decent image quality while leaving size manageable. I just thought that the reviews of the Nikon 300mm f4 didn't show any major down side and did show a significant decrease in size.

06-12-2019, 06:03 PM	#17
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	I will restrain my unbounded curiosity until I can research the topic more thoroughly than the half-hearted stab I made today.

06-12-2019, 10:47 PM	#18
virusn3t Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 676	Im just waiting for the release of the DFA85, and see if i can afford it... if not, those FA85 will drop in price,,as far as this lenses, they're out of any use for me, maybe only to brag about have a very big lens (i more inclined to portrait, and the DFA70-200 (and DFA50 and FA77ltd) is more than enough

06-13-2019, 02:13 AM	#19
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,329	I'm really grateful so many people are being seduced (Oooooh, Matron !) by all the marketing hype. Once they have assuaged their purchasing desires, their old kit will come on the market at prices I can afford, and I think it unlikely that any improvement in IQ will be worth what they are spending.

06-13-2019, 02:42 AM - 1 Like	#20
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by biz-engineer I guess Nikon have found ways to work around that. Yes, but it's in their Capture NX-D RAW processing software: PF Flare Control.

06-14-2019, 04:16 AM	#21
lukulele Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Blue Ridge Escarpment, North Carolina, US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,850	Originally posted by normhead When you've heard folks argue they didn't need TTL metering or Auto-aperture and look at the things people say you "need" today, like 60 fps etc, you have real perspective on what a load of nonsense modern marketing is for a lot of shooters. No one today would dream of introducing a new model without TTL or auto aperture, yet at one time they were deemed ignorable by brand owners to whom they were not available. And now folks claim 4 fps isn't good enough. We used to get a frame every 10 seconds. And it was good enough. Read the light meter, set the aperture on the lens and shutter speed on the camera, check the DoF guide, calculate your hyperlocal, recheck the light to make sure it hadn't changed, take the picture. Thanks Norm, That still describes me with a KP or a K3 or K5 or K7 or Q or.................

06-14-2019, 05:35 AM	#22
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by lukulele Thanks Norm, That still describes me with a KP or a K3 or K5 or K7 or Q or................. I have two modes these days... first, get something, snap off a few frames to make use you have something to work with. Then set up and do the "prefect" shot if you have time. Modern cameras make the first part really easy. The second part, optimizing your exposure for your scene still takes time.

12-02-2019, 04:07 PM	#23
xmeda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brno Posts: 295	Originally posted by virusn3t Im just waiting for the release of the DFA85, and see if i can afford it... if not, those FA85 will drop in price,,as far as this lenses, they're out of any use for me, maybe only to brag about have a very big lens (i more inclined to portrait, and the DFA70-200 (and DFA50 and FA77ltd) is more than enough I don't believe that FA85/1.4 price can drop. It will increase even if new DFA85/1.4 is introduced. Why? Simply because it is no longer manufactured. And prepare for the price of new lens. It won't be cheap... I bet that you'll be able to buy two mint condition FA85/1.4 for the price of single DFA85/1.4..

12-03-2019, 09:35 PM	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Another joke recently made was to headline the fact that Sony took a slight lead in BCN sales statistics with respect to FF in Japan as "Sony overtakes Canon and Nikon to dominate* the full-frame camera market in Japan" (emphasis is mine). They now toned it down to "Sony overtakes Canon and Nikon to lead the full-frame camera market in Japan.*". BTW, does anyone know what the following graph shows on the Y-axis? I'm assuming it shows camera sales, but I'm not sure. Perhaps just ILC camera sales? Although the graph for sure doesn't show FF sales in Japan, it provides some useful context to both the original and updated DPReview headlines. There was never a case of "dominating" to start with but even "leading" doesn't sound quite as nice anymore when considering the big picture.

01-09-2020, 01:20 AM - 1 Like	#26
dangtrangiabao New Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Tokyo Posts: 10	Originally posted by Class A BTW, does anyone know what the following graph shows on the Y-axis? . Yes it shows camera sales worldwide. The 2019 numbers are expected sales

01-09-2020, 02:16 AM - 1 Like	#27
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The Y-axis reads 10,000 units

01-09-2020, 03:31 AM - 1 Like	#28
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	^ Myriad, an ancient unit still used in East Asia and India.

01-09-2020, 09:15 AM	#29
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by Mistral75 ^ Myriad, an ancient unit still used in East Asia and India. Thanks, Mistral. I was aware of the kanji symbol for 10k, but was unaware of the geographical range of usage of that numbering partition, or (until I just looked it up), that myriad archaically meant exactly 10k. Never too old to learn, or to forget.

01-17-2020, 12:29 AM	#30
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by kaseki Thanks, Mistral. I was aware of the kanji symbol for 10k, but was unaware of the geographical range of usage of that numbering partition, or (until I just looked it up), that myriad archaically meant exactly 10k. Never too old to learn, or to forget. When I was a kid and we were taught the units of measure, we were told "miriámetro" (in Spanish) was 10k m. Never used it afterwards, but now the geographic use is up to the Mediterranean I guess I know that in India they use Lakh for 100000 and Crore for 10 million, but that's because one crore is 100 lakh. Numeric systems are fun.