Court judgement (Germany) on shooting down a drone being ok to protect privacy

beholder3 · 07-21-2019, 10:24 AM - **3 Likes**

In Germany there was an interesting judgment in April about a drone pilot invading the view-protected private garden area of a couple where the victim's husband shot down the drone using an air rifle and was sued for it by the drone operator.

The ruling stated that

a) in this case shooting down the drone was absolutely ok to protect the victim's privacy as a defensive measure and

b) the drone pilot will get fined for his trespassing.

The German full text ruling is here:
AG Riesa, Urteil vom 24.04.2019 - 9 Cs 926 Js 3044/19 - openJur

pschlute · 07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - **1 Like**

Quite right too. If any drone idiot tried the same stunt with me I would capture the drone and insert where he was least expecting it.

biz-engineer · 07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - **1 Like**

Shooting down drones could be a new sport substituting clay pigeon shooting. DJI would have to makes new armored drone models, making it harder for the drones to take-off

**DWS1** · 07-21-2019, 11:43 AM - **1 Like**

Doesn't surprise me the German court ruled that way. There was a similar case some years ago here in the US where a landowner trimmed all the branches of his neighbor's tree that overhung his property. The tree then blew down on his neighbor's house in a storm. The neighbor and his insurance company sued the landowner for damages. The court ruled the damages were caused by an act of God, and the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft.

zapp · 07-21-2019, 12:13 PM - **1 Like**

The ruling values the right of protecting your privacy higher than the right of drone property. Privacy was intimidated, but the person broke someone else’s property. You can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? We do not know whether the shutter was pressed...

stevebrot · 07-21-2019, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by DWS1

the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft.

That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm.

Steve

(... don't ask me how I know about these things...)

stevebrot · 07-21-2019, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by zapp

If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?

I would expect it might depend on whether you and the camera were in their private back yard when you did so. To go even further...if I were in my backyard and a very nice camera (choose brand and model) were to be held over my fence, I would quite quickly separate the camera from the hands that hold it and claim ignorance when attempts were made to retrieve said camera. (Not really, but fantasy is a significant player in most photographer's rights discussions.)

Steve

biz-engineer · 07-21-2019, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by zapp

ou can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?

The problem of drones is that pilots can be far away. There have been cases of pilots flying drones over nuclear reactors in France, personnel of the power plant saw to drones but could never find the pilots. In that case, shooting down the drones would have been the solution, or , maybe radio jamming so the drones become out of control?

**othar** · 07-21-2019, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by zapp

Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?

The shooter claimed that the drone was not just trespassing but also following his wife around the garden. The owner of the drone was not to be seen and calling the police would have taken too long (the drone would probably have been gone by then).
Therefore self defence applied for this ruling, but that doesn't mean that shooting down drones is legal in all circumstances.

**PJ1** · 07-21-2019, 01:54 PM

Justified action and a good ruling in my opinion. The problem for the drone pilot is that if they knew you had shot down and as a consequence had their drone, then they must have known where they were flying it.

**monochrome** · 07-21-2019, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm.

Steve

(... don't ask me how I know about these things...)

I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall.

dbs · 07-21-2019, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall.

Hi Monochrome

Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.?

Dave

beholder3 · 07-22-2019, 01:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zapp

If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?

In some cases, I guess: yes.

There is another case from 2012 where a defendant in court was photographed against his will by a press photographer and smacked the lens/camera. This injured the press guy a tiny bit in the face.
The court ruled that the unwilling subject had the right to stop the attack on his privacy in a way that stopped it immediately (by hitting the camera).

If he can hit the photographer I am quite sure it wouldn't have changed anything for the court if the camera would have been damaged or destroyed in the process.

OLG Hamburg, Beschluss vom 05.04.2012 - 3-14/12 - openJur

Originally posted by zapp

We do not know whether the shutter was pressed...

In the drone case that is completely irrelevant as the court explicitly stated that any "live transmission" of image data is against the law (in that scenario), regardless of it being saved somewhere, thus making a "shutter button press" not relevant.

This is interesting insofar as this could be interpreted as liveview and mirrorless viewfinders of photo cameras pointed at someone in a privacy protected area already fullfilling the criteria (without any need for "taking a photo").

**monochrome** · 07-22-2019, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by dbs

Hi Monochrome

Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.?

Dave

We don’t / aren’t permitted to compost on our property. The City collects our leaves and branches weekly and composts them. My neighbor thinks I should collect the leaves from my trees that fall in his yard and place them at the curb myself, so he rakes them up and dumps them in my yard.

I know - seems like more work than just placing them all in the street the way everyone else does.

**StiffLegged** · 07-22-2019, 12:20 PM

I don't know about Germany, but afaik in the US, shooting down an aircraft of any type is a federal offence carrying stiff penalties. This includes drones. Be careful what you shoot at.

07-21-2019, 10:24 AM - 3 Likes	#1
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Court judgement (Germany) on shooting down a drone being ok to protect privacy In Germany there was an interesting judgment in April about a drone pilot invading the view-protected private garden area of a couple where the victim's husband shot down the drone using an air rifle and was sued for it by the drone operator. The ruling stated that a) in this case shooting down the drone was absolutely ok to protect the victim's privacy as a defensive measure and b) the drone pilot will get fined for his trespassing. The German full text ruling is here: AG Riesa, Urteil vom 24.04.2019 - 9 Cs 926 Js 3044/19 - openJur

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07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - 1 Like	#2
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,215	Quite right too. If any drone idiot tried the same stunt with me I would capture the drone and insert where he was least expecting it.

07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - 1 Like	#3
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,246	Shooting down drones could be a new sport substituting clay pigeon shooting. DJI would have to makes new armored drone models, making it harder for the drones to take-off

07-21-2019, 11:43 AM - 1 Like	#4
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169	Doesn't surprise me the German court ruled that way. There was a similar case some years ago here in the US where a landowner trimmed all the branches of his neighbor's tree that overhung his property. The tree then blew down on his neighbor's house in a storm. The neighbor and his insurance company sued the landowner for damages. The court ruled the damages were caused by an act of God, and the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft.

07-21-2019, 12:13 PM - 1 Like	#5
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,388	The ruling values the right of protecting your privacy higher than the right of drone property. Privacy was intimidated, but the person broke someone else’s property. You can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? We do not know whether the shutter was pressed...

07-21-2019, 12:16 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by DWS1 the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft. That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm. Steve (... don't ask me how I know about these things...)

07-21-2019, 12:18 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by zapp If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? I would expect it might depend on whether you and the camera were in their private back yard when you did so. To go even further...if I were in my backyard and a very nice camera (choose brand and model) were to be held over my fence, I would quite quickly separate the camera from the hands that hold it and claim ignorance when attempts were made to retrieve said camera. (Not really, but fantasy is a significant player in most photographer's rights discussions.) Steve

07-21-2019, 12:37 PM	#8
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,246	Originally posted by zapp ou can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? The problem of drones is that pilots can be far away. There have been cases of pilots flying drones over nuclear reactors in France, personnel of the power plant saw to drones but could never find the pilots. In that case, shooting down the drones would have been the solution, or , maybe radio jamming so the drones become out of control?

07-21-2019, 12:39 PM	#9
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by zapp Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? The shooter claimed that the drone was not just trespassing but also following his wife around the garden. The owner of the drone was not to be seen and calling the police would have taken too long (the drone would probably have been gone by then). Therefore self defence applied for this ruling, but that doesn't mean that shooting down drones is legal in all circumstances.

07-21-2019, 01:54 PM	#10
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,486	Justified action and a good ruling in my opinion. The problem for the drone pilot is that if they knew you had shot down and as a consequence had their drone, then they must have known where they were flying it.

07-21-2019, 02:32 PM	#11
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by stevebrot That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm. Steve (... don't ask me how I know about these things...) I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall.

07-21-2019, 03:45 PM	#12
dbs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Clare Valley S A Photos: Albums Posts: 7,565	Originally posted by monochrome I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall. Hi Monochrome Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.? Dave

07-22-2019, 01:40 AM - 1 Like	#13
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by zapp If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? In some cases, I guess: yes. There is another case from 2012 where a defendant in court was photographed against his will by a press photographer and smacked the lens/camera. This injured the press guy a tiny bit in the face. The court ruled that the unwilling subject had the right to stop the attack on his privacy in a way that stopped it immediately (by hitting the camera). If he can hit the photographer I am quite sure it wouldn't have changed anything for the court if the camera would have been damaged or destroyed in the process. OLG Hamburg, Beschluss vom 05.04.2012 - 3-14/12 - openJur Originally posted by zapp We do not know whether the shutter was pressed... In the drone case that is completely irrelevant as the court explicitly stated that any "live transmission" of image data is against the law (in that scenario), regardless of it being saved somewhere, thus making a "shutter button press" not relevant. This is interesting insofar as this could be interpreted as liveview and mirrorless viewfinders of photo cameras pointed at someone in a privacy protected area already fullfilling the criteria (without any need for "taking a photo").

07-22-2019, 07:36 AM	#14
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by dbs Hi Monochrome Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.? Dave We don’t / aren’t permitted to compost on our property. The City collects our leaves and branches weekly and composts them. My neighbor thinks I should collect the leaves from my trees that fall in his yard and place them at the curb myself, so he rakes them up and dumps them in my yard. I know - seems like more work than just placing them all in the street the way everyone else does.

07-22-2019, 12:20 PM	#15
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,634	I don't know about Germany, but afaik in the US, shooting down an aircraft of any type is a federal offence carrying stiff penalties. This includes drones. Be careful what you shoot at.