Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-21-2019, 10:24 AM - 3 Likes   #1
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,273
Court judgement (Germany) on shooting down a drone being ok to protect privacy

In Germany there was an interesting judgment in April about a drone pilot invading the view-protected private garden area of a couple where the victim's husband shot down the drone using an air rifle and was sued for it by the drone operator.

The ruling stated that

a) in this case shooting down the drone was absolutely ok to protect the victim's privacy as a defensive measure and

b) the drone pilot will get fined for his trespassing.

The German full text ruling is here:
AG Riesa, Urteil vom 24.04.2019 - 9 Cs 926 Js 3044/19 - openJur

07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - 1 Like   #2
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
pschlute's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,167
Quite right too. If any drone idiot tried the same stunt with me I would capture the drone and insert where he was least expecting it.
07-21-2019, 11:09 AM - 1 Like   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,692
Shooting down drones could be a new sport substituting clay pigeon shooting. DJI would have to makes new armored drone models, making it harder for the drones to take-off
07-21-2019, 11:43 AM - 1 Like   #4
Junior Member




Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Doesn't surprise me the German court ruled that way. There was a similar case some years ago here in the US where a landowner trimmed all the branches of his neighbor's tree that overhung his property. The tree then blew down on his neighbor's house in a storm. The neighbor and his insurance company sued the landowner for damages. The court ruled the damages were caused by an act of God, and the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft.

07-21-2019, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,342
The ruling values the right of protecting your privacy higher than the right of drone property. Privacy was intimidated, but the person broke someone else’s property. You can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera? We do not know whether the shutter was pressed...
07-21-2019, 12:16 PM   #6
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,168
QuoteOriginally posted by DWS1 Quote
the landowner had every right to cut the overhanging branches, because his private property rights included the air space above his property. I think up to 5,000 ft.
That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm.


Steve

(... don't ask me how I know about these things...)
07-21-2019, 12:18 PM   #7
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,168
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?
I would expect it might depend on whether you and the camera were in their private back yard when you did so. To go even further...if I were in my backyard and a very nice camera (choose brand and model) were to be held over my fence, I would quite quickly separate the camera from the hands that hold it and claim ignorance when attempts were made to retrieve said camera. (Not really, but fantasy is a significant player in most photographer's rights discussions.)


Steve
07-21-2019, 12:37 PM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,692
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
ou can always sue the drone pilot, breaking the drone is more intense. Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?
The problem of drones is that pilots can be far away. There have been cases of pilots flying drones over nuclear reactors in France, personnel of the power plant saw to drones but could never find the pilots. In that case, shooting down the drones would have been the solution, or , maybe radio jamming so the drones become out of control?

07-21-2019, 12:39 PM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2014
Location: Linz
Photos: Albums
Posts: 642
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Interesting ruling. If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?
The shooter claimed that the drone was not just trespassing but also following his wife around the garden. The owner of the drone was not to be seen and calling the police would have taken too long (the drone would probably have been gone by then).
Therefore self defence applied for this ruling, but that doesn't mean that shooting down drones is legal in all circumstances.
07-21-2019, 01:54 PM   #10
PJ1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
PJ1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mosquito Creek, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,569
Justified action and a good ruling in my opinion. The problem for the drone pilot is that if they knew you had shot down and as a consequence had their drone, then they must have known where they were flying it.
07-21-2019, 02:32 PM   #11
AoCo
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,553
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is novel. In most common law jurisdictions, overhanging branches are de facto property of the landowner as are any fruit that might fall on their side. On the flip side, damage from an overhanging branch that falls is considered an act of God and not the fault of the tree owner. Where things get sticky is when the person that does not own the tree chops off roots on their side and now-weakened tree falls into their house during a storm.


Steve

(... don't ask me how I know about these things...)
I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall.
07-21-2019, 03:45 PM   #12
dbs
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Clare Valley S A
Posts: 2,625
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have a neighbor who insists the leaves that fall off my trees into his yard are my property, which he duly and graciously returns to my yard every Thursday evening throughout the Fall.
Hi Monochrome

Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.?

Dave
07-22-2019, 01:40 AM - 1 Like   #13
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,273
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
If i aim my camera at a person, can the person destroy my camera?
In some cases, I guess: yes.

There is another case from 2012 where a defendant in court was photographed against his will by a press photographer and smacked the lens/camera. This injured the press guy a tiny bit in the face.
The court ruled that the unwilling subject had the right to stop the attack on his privacy in a way that stopped it immediately (by hitting the camera).

If he can hit the photographer I am quite sure it wouldn't have changed anything for the court if the camera would have been damaged or destroyed in the process.

OLG Hamburg, Beschluss vom 05.04.2012 - 3-14/12 - openJur

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
We do not know whether the shutter was pressed...
In the drone case that is completely irrelevant as the court explicitly stated that any "live transmission" of image data is against the law (in that scenario), regardless of it being saved somewhere, thus making a "shutter button press" not relevant.

This is interesting insofar as this could be interpreted as liveview and mirrorless viewfinders of photo cameras pointed at someone in a privacy protected area already fullfilling the criteria (without any need for "taking a photo").
07-22-2019, 07:36 AM   #14
AoCo
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,553
QuoteOriginally posted by dbs Quote
Hi Monochrome

Your neighbour doesn't have a compost bin/area or a worm farm.?

Dave
We don’t / aren’t permitted to compost on our property. The City collects our leaves and branches weekly and composts them. My neighbor thinks I should collect the leaves from my trees that fall in his yard and place them at the curb myself, so he rakes them up and dumps them in my yard.

I know - seems like more work than just placing them all in the street the way everyone else does.
07-22-2019, 12:20 PM   #15
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
I don't know about Germany, but afaik in the US, shooting down an aircraft of any type is a federal offence carrying stiff penalties. This includes drones. Be careful what you shoot at.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
air, court judgement, drone, eye, fun, germany, harm, pellet, photo industry, photography, pilot, privacy, rifle, shooter, shot
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not Work-Safe Really...Is there no such thing as privacy out here anymore. c.perkins Post Your Photos! 3 06-04-2018 05:29 PM
Nature Against my better judgement slowpez Post Your Photos! 27 10-01-2012 08:03 AM
Misc Judgement Mareket Photo Critique 6 08-08-2011 02:42 PM
Down down down down... innershell Post Your Photos! 5 08-06-2009 05:45 PM
Good judgement and experience (long) NaClH2O Photographic Technique 18 07-07-2008 02:58 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:01 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top