[beholder3]

Previous quarter Sony already had to report a -73% collapse of their IP&S division profits compared to the same quarter the year before when $ sales dropped by a mere 4%.

Now the 2019 Q1 figures show

• Sony camera (includes video cameras, so the the photography part is smaller) sales in $ dropped by 11% from 113 bln yen to 100 bln yen in Q1 2019
• Interesting notion here is that Sony previously reported 154.4 bln yen sales for the IP&S segment Q4 2018 where EP&S now lists only 53%=83 bln yen of that as still and video camera. Most internet readers assumed the 154 to be all cameras, though it did include various "other" items such as their medical business.
• Sony camera (includes point&shoot compacts) sales in units dropped by -20% 1 million to 0.8 million in Q1 2019

Last year Sony chose to hide the camera business figures in a newly mixed EP&S division, so now it is impossible to tell if Sony cameras are already in the reds or still making money.

It does not seem unlikely that - if a previous drop of 8.1 bln sales wiped out 5 bln yen profits down to a remaining 1.8 bln profit left - the new evaporation of 13 bln yen sales (much more than last time) now also wiped out more profits than 5 bln of the 1.8, leaving them with losses in their camera business.

This all reinforces the fact that they all are in a deep swamp.

[jimr-pdx]

Imaging is doooomed. Well non phone imaging ..

[ffking]

I think that Sony cameras have been growing fast by attracting new customers - I also suspect that they have already picked the low-hanging fruit on that one, They are also reaching the point of diminishing returns on tech investment. So, if they want to maintain the excitement in the brand, which is based on being in the news through constant new releases, it won't be self financing, which is a business decision that most corporations are reluctant to take unless they are hell-bent on market dominance and believe it achievable, To me, it's no coincidence that Minolta tried the same route of buying market share and failed. Olympus has always had a very high advertising spend and has shakey finances. I think the cautious approach of the Ricoh execs might just prove a better strategy - but time ill tell.

[biz-engineer]

Imaging is doooomed. Well non phone imaging ..

Phones are the same. I've been through the rise and fall of satellite phones, to the rise of Chinese made clam-shell mobile phones, to the closing of phone facilities all over Europe and the fall of Nokia, to the rise of Apple and Samsung, to the rise of Huawei. Electronics and software aren't vital goods. Everything electronic is built to last 11 years (much longer that it is necessary to be profitable for electronic makers), and software can potentially live forever as long as the underlying hardware can run it. So there is no urge for any customer to buy anything. The only driver for sales is innovation that customers want to buy, but most innovation is rapidly being copied because consumer electronics is attractive for its total size. Usually, stable growth lasts about 5 years, and them it's a struggle until someone invent something new that is compelling enough for customers to desire upgrade what they have and still working fine. Often companies that were at the top of their game ended up restructuring a few years later.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-01-2019 at 01:12 AM.

[Kunzite]

Imaging is doooomed. Well non phone imaging ..

Sony's phone division is doing poorly; which is a pity, as I like and I'm using their phones.

[MetalUndivided]

Oh noes. Sony is DOOOOOOOMMMED. /s
Big shock, camera market is rapidly shrinking. Can't wait for the bright future with the cheapest ILC cameras being upwards of 2k USD.

[tvdtvdtvd]

As much as I'd like to see Sony exit the camera market, I don't think they're in any immediate danger and don't see them quitting just yet. As other's
have pointed out, Sony has sunk its claws into a good chunk of the market. That initial sales volumes are not being maintained with replacements
is more indicative of the mature camera market and not a failure of Sony to deliver what the public wants. If anything, Sony appears to be inching
up into the high end side of the market, as all the dedicated camera makers will have to do to survive.

Not sure how it all looks on the books for Sony cameras. If there's any certainty to Sony, they have no fear of entering almost any market yet they
also have a history of pulling stakes without hesitation.

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Last edited by tvdtvdtvd; 08-01-2019 at 10:37 AM.

[Trickortreat]

Well - the bubble has burst…

[Mistral75]

(...)

Now the 2019 Q1 figures show

• Sony camera (includes video cameras, so the the photography part is smaller) sales in $ dropped by 11% from 113 bln yen to 100 bln yen in Q1 2019
• Interesting notion here is that Sony previously reported 154.4 bln yen sales for the IP&S segment Q4 2018 where EP&S now lists only 53%=83 bln yen of that as still and video camera. Most internet readers assumed the 154 to be all cameras, though it did include various "other" items such as their medical business.
• Sony camera (includes point&shoot compacts) sales in units dropped by -20% 1 million to 0.8 million in Q1 2019

(...)

Canon data over the same period:

• Canon camera (including video cameras) sales in ¥ dropped by 25%
• Canon interchangeable lens camera sales in units dropped by 22%
• Canon compact camera sales in units dropped by 17%

Olympus data over the same period:

• Olympus camera sales in ¥ dropped by 28% (25% for mirrorless cameras and 40% for compact cameras)
• Olympus interchangeable lens camera sales in units dropped by 22%
• Olympus compact camera sales in units dropped by 50%

[RonHendriks1966]

Looks like they all didn't have a good selling product like the GRIII.

[normhead]

Looks like they all didn't have a good selling product like the GRIII.

Amazing how in small company, one good selling product makes all the difference.

[DeadJohn]

It's further proof that the dedicated camera market continues to shrink. 1 of the big manufacturers might have to die to stabilize the industry. The herd needs to be thinned.

Some of the smaller players might go, too, but I don't see how the big 3 (Canon, Nikon, and Sony) can all be profitable in the future. If 1 leaves the consumer camera market then the other 2 benefit. Or maybe not ... if Canon went away, for example, would most of their customers change systems, or just give up and use smartphones?

[normhead]

It's further proof that the dedicated camera market continues to shrink. 1 of the big manufacturers might have to die to stabilize the industry. The herd needs to be thinned.

Some of the smaller players might go, too, but I don't see how the big 3 (Canon, Nikon, and Sony) can all be profitable in the future. If 1 leaves the consumer camera market then the other 2 benefit. Or maybe not ... if Canon went away, for example, would most of their customers change systems, or just give up and use smartphones?

It all depends on how efficiently they can downsize to meet demand.

[beholder3]

It's further proof that the dedicated camera market continues to shrink. 1 of the big manufacturers might have to die to stabilize the industry. The herd needs to be thinned.

There is only one big player, Canon. The rest is different types of "small".

With the whole mirroless crap not being able to gain any more market share consistently over many months now even when supported by HUGE advertising, there has to be some fallout.

[RonHendriks1966]

Olympus basicly shut down their compact camera business. Now they only have the TG-5 (probably new old stock and no production) and TG-6 on sale. So no wonder that unit sales went down 50 %.

By the way, looking at Ricoh-Imaging. It looks like only the WG-6 is still in production and all older models are new old stock and no production.

Edit: talking about compact camera though series.