[BigMackCam]

You clearly haven't looked on Dutch road the last years.

Most sold car models this year:
Verkoopcijfers auto's Nederland in 2019 - AutoWeek.nl

#1 VW polo is a small car
#3 Tesla model 3
#6 Kia Picasso is a small car

... because in Europe we don't have so many big roads and highways as our US friends, we don't travel such great distances since our countries are tiny by comparison, and our fuel is far costlier due to taxation. As a result, for many years we've favoured smaller, more economical vehicles. When folks in the US were happy to drive around in 5.0L V8 land yachts, the UK standard car was a smaller or mid-sized sedan with a 1.3, 1.6 or (at best) 2.0L four pot. Anything bigger and thirstier was for the luxury end of the market and those with deep pockets.

Even so, three of our top ten selling cars in the UK are smaller SUVs...

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 09-04-2019 at 12:17 PM.

[normhead]

in Europe we don't have so many big roads and highways as our US friends, we don't travel such great distances since our countries are tiny by comparison, and our fuel is far costlier due to taxation. As a result, for many years we've favoured smaller, more economical vehicles. When folks in the US were happy to drive around in 5.0L V8 land yacths, the UK standard car was a smaller or mid-sized sedan with a 1.3, 1.6 or (at best) 2.0L four pot. Anything bigger and thirstier was for the luxury end of the market and those with deep pockets.

Even so, three of our top ten selling cars in the UK are smaller SUVs...

A lot of us need dog mobiles.

[Trickortreat]

The logical conclusion (based on thenumbers, not unsupported opinons) would be mirrorless has peaked.

The next logical conclusion is, mirrorless is unlikely to surpass DSLRs based on current trends.

The third logical conclusion is, predictions by mirrorless fanatics proclaiming mirrorless is the future and DSLRs are dated technology are untrue. It is odd to see mirrorless proponents trying to turn the tables and say "mirrorless isn't going away." I've never heard any DSLR shooter say it will. But many times I've heard Mirrorless proponents claiming mirrorless is going to wipe out DSLRs and that us "dinosaurs" using DSLRs will have no place to buy our cameras.

That's the historical perspective. Wild claims by Mirrorless advocates. Now those wild claims have pretty much come to nothing. They made a lot of noise about taking over the market after their introduction, but they are currently moving the other direction. Their current market share is significant. But they aren't making other cameras obsolete. They seem to have settled into their post on the totem poll, with people both dropping DSLRs for mirrorless and dropping Mirrorless for DSLRs in roughly the same numbers.

But hey, I just interpret the numbers....
By the way, Pentax execs once said EVFs weren't "there" yet. In the opinion of the companies engineers, analysis of mirrorless systems showed them to be lacking in some value that Pentax values. What that would be I have no idea. But the implication is clear. There are many users satisfied with what Pentax considers to be less than their minimum standard. I own a Pentax XG-1 that both is mirrorless and has a selectable EVF. All these assumptions that Pentax hasn't thoroughly investigated Mirrorless and EVFs are pure nonsense.

Personally, I'm quite happy to wait until Pentax decides a mirrorless system can be made to Pentax's standards. I could care less when that is.There are many other factors in my camera purchasing decisions that go beyond whether or not the camera has mirror. In fact that's probably the least of my concerns. I'm all about functionality. All this data points out how many people there are out there, for whom the disadvantages of EVFs and Mirrorless out weigh the advantages. A demographic that is still the majority of ILC users.

The big question in my mind is whether or not MILC users will ever accept their status as a minority of the market, as opposed to their confident and oft proclaimed predictions that they will one day rule the market and that DSLR users will no longer be able to buy bodies for their lenses. Cutting edge has become yesterday's news real quick. Every new mirrorless release just inspires more yawning, at least for me. Another one? Really? <Big yawn>.

Thr fact ia that major players are dropping DSLR lines fast. It not so dostant future ML will be most dominant tech by far. Bit no DSLRs arent going away. There will always be people wholl like OVF more. Just like there are folks who prefer rangefinders.

[BigMackCam]

Thr fact ia that major players are dropping DSLR lines fast.

Are they? Just yet? I don't know...

Canon and Nikon are certainly focusing most of their attentions and budgets on the new mirrorless lines of cameras and lenses, but I don't see that they've dropped their DSLR lines yet. There's some consolidation in model ranges, but right now it seems to me that there's still an element of hedging going on. If the mirrorless lines take off well and sales of DSLRs dwindle sufficiently, I can see that they might drop DSLRs altogether... but otherwise, they're still in the game with well-established bodies that could be easily updated with new sensors (e.g. Canon's 90D).

As for the other brands, they were already mirrorless to begin with (OK, Olympus and Sony had DSLRs some time back, but those days are long gone).

[Trickortreat]

Yep. From all the rumors at canonwatch and nikon rumors they are makimg serious cuts. Its pretty sure that canon isnt refreshing 7D line. Nikon is sure to drop D6xx and D3xxx.
Those are pretty much confirmed. Rumor say it might even be 50% of their dslr lines that are going the way of the dodo...
Yes, Sony and Oly were the first ones to ditch DSLRs. Fuji did it even earlier. And the trend seems to continue...

[BigMackCam]

Yep. From all the rumors at canonwatch and nikon rumors they are makimg serious cuts. Its pretty sure that canon isnt refreshing 7D line. Nikon is sure to drop D6xx and D3xxx.
Those are pretty much confirmed. Rumor say it might even be 50% of their dslr lines that are going the way of the dodo...

Right, but my point is, that's not Canon and Nikon dropping DSLRs. That's them consolidating and reducing the number of models in their DSLR product lines, whilst diverting most of their development budgets into new mirrorless lines that - so far - haven't set the world on fire with sales.

Yes, Sony and Oly were the first ones to ditch DSLRs. Fuji did it even earlier. And the trend seems to continue...

Sony, Oly and Fuji are the only ones to have completely ditched DSLRs, and they did it some time ago, with fewer players in the mirrorless market to compete with. Any brand completely dropping DSLRs now and shifting entirely to mirrorless is taking a big risk, IMHO. There's already a lot of choice for those who like mirrorless, a lot of folks established with those other brands, and a lot of folks with DSLRs who don't want to switch to mirrorless. I see a trend for product ranges shifting towards a mirrorless bias, for sure... but I'll be interested to see whether Nikon and Canon actually go so far as to completely drop their DSLR lines at the expense of losing their DSLR die-hard customers.

[MarkJerling]

... because in Europe we don't have so many big roads and highways as our US friends, we don't travel such great distances since our countries are tiny by comparison, and our fuel is far costlier due to taxation. As a result, for many years we've favoured smaller, more economical vehicles. When folks in the US were happy to drive around in 5.0L V8 land yachts, the UK standard car was a smaller or mid-sized sedan with a 1.3, 1.6 or (at best) 2.0L four pot. Anything bigger and thirstier was for the luxury end of the market and those with deep pockets.

Even so, three of our top ten selling cars in the UK are smaller SUVs...

Here, much like there, bigger vehicles are very popular, still.

Top selling vehicles.
1. Ford Ranger (a ute / pickup / truck)
2. Toyota Hilux (a ute / pickup / truck)
3. Toyota Corolla (Not exactly small car anymore, but very popular in the rental car market, hence all the sales numbers)
4. Toyota Rav4 (SUV)
5. Mitsubishi Triton (a ute / pickup / truck)
6. Holden Colorado (a ute / pickup / truck)
7. Mazda CX-5 (SUV)
8. Nissan Navara (a ute / pickup / truck)
9. Kia Sportage (SUV)
10. Suzuki Swift - A small car makes the list.

So, it seems we mostly buy diesel utes.

[boriscleto]

I only know one person with a Canon mirrorless. The AF on his 6D stopped working, so instead of paying over $700 to have it fixed he bought the RP and the EOS adapter for $1200.

He just retired and bought a travel trailer, embarking on his new career as a full time landscape photographer

[SSGGeezer]

No EVF for me after trying a neighbors Sony with EVF, it rolled when panned and was clearly inferior to My OVF on the K-1, K-5IIs, and KP. (At least to my eyes. YMMV!)

[luftfluss]

No EVF for me after trying a neighbors Sony with EVF, it rolled when panned and was clearly inferior to My OVF on the K-1, K-5IIs, and KP. (At least to my eyes. YMMV!)

I've used a number of EVFs over the years - most recently in the Fuji X-T20 - and find them fine for casual snaps, but once I'm working on a subject that demands greater concentration, I find the EVF unpleasant. Maybe the fancy high-res EVF in the Panasonic S1R would work for me.

I have no philosophical issue with using an EVF; when my K-01 was my sole K-mount camera, I used lenses up to 300mm with it, and used a Hoodman Loupe-type device attached to the LCD screen. Worked well.

[BigMackCam]

I've used a number of EVFs over the years - most recently in the Fuji X-T20 - and find them fine for casual snaps, but once I'm working on a subject that demands greater concentration, I find the EVF unpleasant. Maybe the fancy high-res EVF in the Panasonic S1R would work for me.

I have no philosophical issue with using an EVF; when my K-01 was my sole K-mount camera, I used lenses up to 300mm with it, and used a Hoodman Loupe-type device attached to the LCD screen. Worked well.

The funny thing with using a Hoodman (or other) loupe on our DSLRs is that it results in a fairly low resolution EVF, albeit a large one, with the same disadvantages as the dedicated EVF in a modern MILC. This is one of two disagreements I respectfully have with those who say it's the same as a mirrorless EVF... (1) it's lower resolution, which is definitely noticeable - especially for manual focusing operations, and (2) it's ergonomically inferior... IMHO, at least. That said, it works, and I use such a loupe on my K-3 with no problems...

[Trickortreat]

Right, but my point is, that's not Canon and Nikon dropping DSLRs. That's them consolidating and reducing the number of models in their DSLR product lines, whilst diverting most of their development budgets into new mirrorless lines that - so far - haven't set the world on fire with sales.

Ive never said that they are dropping DSLRs altogether, just dropping some DSLR lines. You can call it consolidating but D6xx line is already replaced with Z6 line and if the rumors are true, more of that is coming. It is just a transition - like it was from rangefinder to SLR back in the day. Same pattern...

[Rondec]

Businesses and sometimes entire industries make bad capital allocation decisions. Consumers buy what makes sense and what they want, not necessarily what MBA’s develop (and MILC is most definitely an MBA product) or what goverment decides consumers should buy.

Example: In response to Western CAFE requirements all the auto industry R&D is going into Electric and smaller Turbocharged engines, but consumers are buying SUV’s, pickups and anything with 4 doors and a V-8. Even though they cost more, get lower mileage, actually perform worse and are a stupid waste for most users.

It's a side issue, but a lot of Americans live in rural areas. I know I do and I have four kids. I don't particularly care about the size of the engine, but we need vehicles with adequate space to transport our family and gear around. And living in the country, I end up using a pickup to bring mulch to my house or trash to the dump (no trash pick up where we live) and things like that. It would be awfully difficult for out family to get by with a couple of smart cars.

I guess the point is that people use what works for them, not what others say they have to use (I'm agreeing with you). If everyone else goes mirrorless except for a few top end cameras, it could be a real boon for Pentax.

[ThorSanchez]

Example: In response to Western CAFE requirements all the auto industry R&D is going into Electric and smaller Turbocharged engines, but consumers are buying SUV’s, pickups and anything with 4 doors and a V-8. Even though they cost more, get lower mileage, actually perform worse and are a stupid waste for most users.

It's harder to pull off a cosplay cowboy if you're in a VW Golf instead of a SuperDuty King Ranch F350. It's important for those 46-year-old logistics analysts in Fairfax to believe that they're 15 minutes from being in a real life episode of Bonanza.

[MarkJerling]

It's harder to pull off a cosplay cowboy if you're in a VW Golf instead of a SuperDuty King Ranch F350. It's important for those 46-year-old logistics analysts in Fairfax to believe that they're 15 minutes from being in a real life episode of Bonanza.

It's also pretty difficult to take a load of rubbish to the dump, or take a quad bike to the beach, or pick up a few sheets of ply or a load of firewood with the VW Golf. Which is why utes outsell everything else at a considerable margin.