CIPA shipments August 2019 - DSLR gaining marketshare

beholder3 · 10-12-2019, 03:52 AM - **7 Likes**

Interesting to see DSLR sales still not being reached by DSLM. Actually the lead of DSLR vs DSLM widened again to 59% DSLR versus 41% DSLM.
Overall the industry saw a little upwards trend.

Attached Images

**Serkevan** · 10-12-2019, 05:38 AM - **3 Likes**

Maybe perhaps the Ricoh people were not that crazy when they said some people would want to come back to OVFs...

**Madaboutpix** · 10-12-2019, 07:02 AM - **2 Likes**

beholder3 is becoming our foremost chronicler and presenter of these trends. Seriously, really appreciated. So much for the imminent demise of the DSLR, which somehow has been imminent for nearly a decade now ...

Ausable · 10-12-2019, 08:38 AM

Could you post a chart from August to August to eliminate seasonal trends? Or even over a few years?

Mistral75 · 10-12-2019, 01:44 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Ausable

Could you post a chart from August to August to eliminate seasonal trends? Or even over a few years?

surfar · 10-12-2019, 03:45 PM

@ mistral...whats that source?

---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 09:48 AM ----------

[/COLOR]CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras

**clickclick** · 10-12-2019, 04:59 PM

Looking at the two charts, just seems too soon to make any long term predictions one way or the other.

Class A · 10-12-2019, 08:19 PM

Let's hope we'll see some disruptive technology entering the DSLR space soon.

If it doesn't come soon, it may be too late to stop the MILCs from taking over in pieces sold.

Class A · 10-12-2019, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

Interesting to see DSLR sales still not being reached by DSLM.

In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though.

Originally posted by beholder3

Actually the lead of DSLR vs DSLM widened again to 59% DSLR versus 41% DSLM.

That's nice to see!

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 02:13 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by surfar

@ mistral...whats that source?

---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 09:48 AM ----------

[/COLOR]CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras

The source of the figures is CIPA (you gave the link), the graphs are home made.

Mistral75 · 10-13-2019, 02:19 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though.

(...)

Indeed, since September 2018. During the first eight months of 2019 the SLR/MILC split is 56/44 in units (2018: 64/36) and 41/59 in ¥ (2018: 57/43).

Those cheap Canon EOS Rebel SL3 (EOS 250D / EOS Kiss X10) / EOS Rebel T7 (EOS 2000D) / EOS 4000D are still selling like hotcakes.

**Rondec** · 10-13-2019, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Let's hope we'll see some disruptive technology entering the DSLR space soon.

If it doesn't come soon, it may be too late to stop the MILCs from taking over in pieces sold.

It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech. There have been almost no new SLRs released in the last year and there have been numerous MILCs released in that same time with three new mounts (Z, RP, and L). If even thirty to forty percent of current Canon/Nikon SLR users decided to move to MILCs the graph would flip, but it didn't, saying, I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think.

In fact, camera sales are declining overall because of the fact that people are too satisfied with whatever they are shooting currently to upgrade.

Winder is a member of the Forum who has purchased a Sony A9 and tends to be a big proponent of their tech. While he thinks the A9 II is a good idea, it doesn't really bring enough new to the table to make him want to upgrade at the price it would take.

beholder3 · 10-13-2019, 04:45 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Class A

In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though.

Quite irrelevant unless I was a producer/seller side marketing/advertisement person.

If my photography club has 10 members wit a K-30 and a lonely one with a Leica SL, I would laugh at anyone claiming Leica has a 70% share in our photography club.

Same with CIPA figures.

I am reporting the preferences of the worldwide club of photographers.

---------- Post added 13th Oct 2019 at 13:57 ----------

Originally posted by Rondec

It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech. There have been almost no new SLRs released in the last year and there have been numerous MILCs released in that same time with three new mounts (Z, RP, and L). If even thirty to forty percent of current Canon/Nikon SLR users decided to move to MILCs the graph would flip, but it didn't, saying, I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think.

+1

The share of DSLRs will inevitably be forced down in the long run by the maker's policy/advertising decisions, but demand simply is not there for the DSLM same-same results for more-more money.

DSLM models actively marketed/advertised freshly in 2019: 22 = 88%

DSLR models actively marketed/advertised freshly in 2019: 3 = 12%

A lot of r&d and advertising money burnt and few customers convinced to join the much hyped DSLM party.

Class A · 10-13-2019, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech.

I'm not surprised at all.

Manufacturers that have mirrorless line ups are keen to move as many people over to their MILC technology as possible.
The more people change their camera bodies, the more will buy the mirrorless lenses that go with them.

It's a way for the industry to make everyone buy their equipment all over again.

Hence, I wouldn't expect any DSLR innovations from Canon and Nikon.

It's up to Ricoh to demonstrate the potential left in DSLRs.
If they could just make an investment, develop some really nice hybrid viewfinder technology, and show how you can have great battery life, a great viewfinder experience with all the perks of mirrorless technology (without the reduced flange distance that no one really needs), who know where that could take them.

Originally posted by Rondec

I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think.

Certainly not.

They furthermore have quite a bit of money sunk into their systems. Some people are happy to take losses when changing systems. I think the majority are not.

Class A · 10-13-2019, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

Quite irrelevant unless I was a producer/seller side marketing/advertisement person.

I don't think it is irrelevant where manufacturers are making their money.

Profit potential guides their actions.

I don't follow the numbers but it was probably a rise in MILC profits lead by Sony that convinced Canikon to finally create some competition.
If Canikon are now encouraged by good MILC sales, they will direct further investments into this area, more so than they would have naturally done to give people the chance to spend more money.

Overall, that's not good for further advancing DSLR technology.

However, as I wrote in my previous post, it positions Ricoh well to capitalise on the fact that they didn't spend a lot of money to join the mirrorless race.
They just need to believe in the success they could have and seize a great opportunity.

10-12-2019, 03:52 AM - 7 Likes	#1
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	CIPA shipments August 2019 - DSLR gaining marketshare Interesting to see DSLR sales still not being reached by DSLM. Actually the lead of DSLR vs DSLM widened again to 59% DSLR versus 41% DSLM. Overall the industry saw a little upwards trend. Attached Images

10-12-2019, 03:45 PM	#6
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	@ mistral...whats that source? ---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 09:48 AM ---------- [/COLOR]CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras Last edited by surfar; 10-12-2019 at 03:52 PM.

10-13-2019, 02:25 PM	#15
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by beholder3 Quite irrelevant unless I was a producer/seller side marketing/advertisement person. I don't think it is irrelevant where manufacturers are making their money. Profit potential guides their actions. I don't follow the numbers but it was probably a rise in MILC profits lead by Sony that convinced Canikon to finally create some competition. If Canikon are now encouraged by good MILC sales, they will direct further investments into this area, more so than they would have naturally done to give people the chance to spend more money. Overall, that's not good for further advancing DSLR technology. However, as I wrote in my previous post, it positions Ricoh well to capitalise on the fact that they didn't spend a lot of money to join the mirrorless race. They just need to believe in the success they could have and seize a great opportunity. Last edited by Class A; 10-13-2019 at 04:24 PM.

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10-12-2019, 05:38 AM - 3 Likes	#2
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Maybe perhaps the Ricoh people were not that crazy when they said some people would want to come back to OVFs...

10-12-2019, 07:02 AM - 2 Likes	#3
Madaboutpix Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Rhine-Westphalia Posts: 1,440	beholder3 is becoming our foremost chronicler and presenter of these trends. Seriously, really appreciated. So much for the imminent demise of the DSLR, which somehow has been imminent for nearly a decade now ...

10-12-2019, 08:38 AM	#4
Ausable Senior Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 148	Could you post a chart from August to August to eliminate seasonal trends? Or even over a few years?

10-12-2019, 01:44 PM - 2 Likes	#5
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Ausable Could you post a chart from August to August to eliminate seasonal trends? Or even over a few years?

10-12-2019, 04:59 PM	#7
clickclick Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,903	Looking at the two charts, just seems too soon to make any long term predictions one way or the other.

10-12-2019, 08:19 PM	#8
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Let's hope we'll see some disruptive technology entering the DSLR space soon. If it doesn't come soon, it may be too late to stop the MILCs from taking over in pieces sold.

10-12-2019, 08:22 PM	#9
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by beholder3 Interesting to see DSLR sales still not being reached by DSLM. In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though. Originally posted by beholder3 Actually the lead of DSLR vs DSLM widened again to 59% DSLR versus 41% DSLM. That's nice to see!

10-13-2019, 02:13 AM - 2 Likes	#10
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by surfar @ mistral...whats that source? ---------- Post added 10-13-19 at 09:48 AM ---------- [/COLOR]CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras The source of the figures is CIPA (you gave the link), the graphs are home made.

10-13-2019, 02:19 AM - 1 Like	#11
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Class A In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though. (...) Indeed, since September 2018. During the first eight months of 2019 the SLR/MILC split is 56/44 in units (2018: 64/36) and 41/59 in ¥ (2018: 57/43). Those cheap Canon EOS Rebel SL3 (EOS 250D / EOS Kiss X10) / EOS Rebel T7 (EOS 2000D) / EOS 4000D are still selling like hotcakes.

10-13-2019, 03:27 AM	#12
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by Class A Let's hope we'll see some disruptive technology entering the DSLR space soon. If it doesn't come soon, it may be too late to stop the MILCs from taking over in pieces sold. It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech. There have been almost no new SLRs released in the last year and there have been numerous MILCs released in that same time with three new mounts (Z, RP, and L). If even thirty to forty percent of current Canon/Nikon SLR users decided to move to MILCs the graph would flip, but it didn't, saying, I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think. In fact, camera sales are declining overall because of the fact that people are too satisfied with whatever they are shooting currently to upgrade. Winder is a member of the Forum who has purchased a Sony A9 and tends to be a big proponent of their tech. While he thinks the A9 II is a good idea, it doesn't really bring enough new to the table to make him want to upgrade at the price it would take.

10-13-2019, 04:45 AM - 2 Likes	#13
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A In terms of revenue MILCS have taken over recently, though. Quite irrelevant unless I was a producer/seller side marketing/advertisement person. If my photography club has 10 members wit a K-30 and a lonely one with a Leica SL, I would laugh at anyone claiming Leica has a 70% share in our photography club. Same with CIPA figures. I am reporting the preferences of the worldwide club of photographers. ---------- Post added 13th Oct 2019 at 13:57 ---------- Originally posted by Rondec It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech. There have been almost no new SLRs released in the last year and there have been numerous MILCs released in that same time with three new mounts (Z, RP, and L). If even thirty to forty percent of current Canon/Nikon SLR users decided to move to MILCs the graph would flip, but it didn't, saying, I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think. +1 The share of DSLRs will inevitably be forced down in the long run by the maker's policy/advertising decisions, but demand simply is not there for the DSLM same-same results for more-more money. DSLM models actively marketed/advertised freshly in 2019: 22 = 88% DSLR models actively marketed/advertised freshly in 2019: 3 = 12% A lot of r&d and advertising money burnt and few customers convinced to join the much hyped DSLM party.

10-13-2019, 02:16 PM	#14
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Rondec It's odd that it hasn't happened already though considering the amount of investment Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic have made in new MILC tech. I'm not surprised at all. Manufacturers that have mirrorless line ups are keen to move as many people over to their MILC technology as possible. The more people change their camera bodies, the more will buy the mirrorless lenses that go with them. It's a way for the industry to make everyone buy their equipment all over again. Hence, I wouldn't expect any DSLR innovations from Canon and Nikon. It's up to Ricoh to demonstrate the potential left in DSLRs. If they could just make an investment, develop some really nice hybrid viewfinder technology, and show how you can have great battery life, a great viewfinder experience with all the perks of mirrorless technology (without the reduced flange distance that no one really needs), who know where that could take them. Originally posted by Rondec I think, that SLR photographers aren't as dissatisfied with SLR tech as what camera brands think. Certainly not. They furthermore have quite a bit of money sunk into their systems. Some people are happy to take losses when changing systems. I think the majority are not.