Tony and Chelsea do it again...

swanlefitte · 10-26-2019, 09:09 AM - **1 Like**

Roger at lens rentals does a good job of mixing the geek and fun stories in his history articles.
Lens Rentals | Blog

Not a Number · 10-26-2019, 09:16 AM - **1 Like**

You won't get much sympathy from me for self-inflicted wounds

ndzinn · 10-26-2019, 09:50 AM - **1 Like**

I, too, caught the oversight in the 10 cameras video, but we're being too harsh on the Northrups, folks.

The following link gets you to the Northrup's history of Pentax, where full credit for the first SLR is given to Pentax:

You Tube

So, maybe it should be 11 cameras! Go to YouTube and search "Northrup Pentax" and you'll find lots of reviews. Tony is a fan of the K1.

One thing I like about the Northrups is that they're not in the industry's pocket. See Tony's review of the Nikon Z50 for evidence. Someone needs to tell it like it is. And ... great though the brand may be ... Pentax is waning in the market. Let's hope that K-New moves the needle in the other direction.

**TwoUptons** · 10-26-2019, 10:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by microlight

I just watched most of the Northrups' latest video, on 10 most important moments in photography history. It went well enough up to World War II, with daguerrotypes, box Brownies, 35mm, Leica and the Kwanon copy, but then they jumped from the rangefinder-type cameras to ... the introduction of the Nigh-kon F1 in 1959 - and it was a SLR! And then Nikon thereafter went on to become blah blah blah. So much for Asahi's Pentax in 1957 and the reign of the Spotmatic during the 60s.

Disgusted of Basingstoke.

That’s ridiculous. All the cool kids know the important step was from those mid-century rangefinders straight to Sony and Fuji digital mirrorless...

They could have just skipped 50 or so years of wasted development

/s
-Eric

**FozzFoster** · 10-26-2019, 10:27 AM - **2 Likes**

Tony's review of the K-S2 was one of the reasons I got into Pentax:

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

I believe that instead of demonizing him, we could just still respect people when they make a mistake or have a contrary opinion.
Probably too much to ask for though, eh?

Not a Number · 10-26-2019, 10:44 AM - **1 Like**

Don't forget this one, he picks on just about everybody not just Pentax:

Youtu.be

DrawsACircle · 10-26-2019, 11:19 AM

I used to watch T&C a lot, but this episode did it for me:

Youtu.be

at 8:46
No reason to keep watching hoping they will mention some new Pentax stuff.

Qwntm · 10-26-2019, 12:33 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by StiffLegged

As any fule kno, Tony's competences are, er, limited. He's not a physicist, nor an ethicist, and presumably neither is he an historian. The autumn colours are rather attractive this time of year and make much more appealing watching. (100 posts this month? Gosh what a chatterbox I've become!)

He's sure rolling in the dough though... not sure how or why. Probably inherited.

Scoring a home run aint such a big deal when your born on third base! Unlike some of us who were born miles from the stadium! I'm just thrilled that at 56 years old I got a seat behind the score board on the 4th level to watch the game...

Wasp · 10-26-2019, 12:50 PM - **1 Like**

I saw the video and also thought that they skipped over a lot of things. They jumped straight from the Daguerreotype to the Kodak Brownie, for instance. As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR. And the F mount is still around. Yes, I know, Pentax made SLRs before Nikon...

The biggest oversight for me: the first fully fledged AF system was from Minolta, not Canon.

All in all, I still liked it. It was entertaining and informative. Picking 10 top moments from history is always going to be subjective.

**kiwi_jono** · 10-26-2019, 01:09 PM

I used to watch them a bit a 2 or 3 years ago. I liked the professional feel to the videos and I don't mind constructive criticism however they seemed prone of runing foul by using broad generalisations (often turning them into click bait) - drove me mad.

Still like them or hate them they have a substantial viewer base and its pity they don't cover Pentax anymore (from the point of view of brand awareness).

**c.a.m** · 10-26-2019, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Wasp

As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR.

In the book I referenced above -- 500 Cameras -- the Nikon F is described in absolutely glowing terms, such as:

"Perhaps no camera better represents photojournalism in the 1960s than than the Nikon F..."

"...the Nikon F... quickly became "the" 35mm SLR."

"...what sold it was its renown for quality and durability that may have almost single-handedly repositioned the Japanese camera industry, upending a post-war reputation for shoddy production."

and so on.

- Craig

Kunzite · 10-26-2019, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Tony needed a K-1. Ricoh Imaging NA didn’t deliver. Ergo Pentax does not exist.

Ricoh Imaging didn't deliver for free. Or, rather, "free" - in the end, we'd be the ones paying and I don't think I like the idea.

stevebrot · 10-26-2019, 01:51 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by microlight

So much for Asahi's Pentax in 1957 and the reign of the Spotmatic during the 60s.

So much for Exakta, Zeiss, Praktica, Rollei, and Hasselblad (yes medium format counts) too. In all fairness, a comprehensive history is a little broad in scope for their typical podcast/video. They have their regular viewers and those apparently are not too upset if the content is on the light side. What puzzles me is why so many PF members watch the videos and then complain about them here. If one knows they don't like the odor of kimchee, don't eat in Korean restaurants.

Steve

**EssJayEff** · 10-26-2019, 02:05 PM

Wikipedia entry’s take on the Nikon F? “Although many of the concepts had already been introduced elsewhere, it was revolutionary in that it was the first to combine them all in one camera.”

From that pespective you could see why they pointed to the F. The episode title is “10 Moments in History that Changed Cameras.” You could make the case that the combination of multiple features surpassed the importance the first instance. Much like their skipping the Kodak and going straight to the Brownie. Tony even stated that Nikon didn’t invent the SLR but they “popularized” it.

That said, Chelsea’s description of a daguerreotype as a print is flat out wrong. It was not a format where you could “print a photo” it *is* the photo— a unique item. While expensive at first, prices soon became much more affordable. Tony’s statement that the Brownie was the first snap shot camera, the first camera you (i.e. the non-photographer?) could take on a vacation and “record it” is equally wrong. That distinction could very well go to the Kodak introduced more than a decade earlier.

stevebrot · 10-26-2019, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Wasp

As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR

I agree. One might arguably counter that the Pentax S2, released the same year, was a worthy alternative* along with mature products from Exakta and KW/VEB in occupied Germany.

Steve

* The argument generally ends when it is pointed out that Asahi offered no lenses in 1959 having true automatic aperture actuation, something F-mount lenses offered from the start.

10-26-2019, 02:05 PM	#29
EssJayEff Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: near Saxapahaw, NC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 970	Wikipedia entry’s take on the Nikon F? “Although many of the concepts had already been introduced elsewhere, it was revolutionary in that it was the first to combine them all in one camera.” From that pespective you could see why they pointed to the F. The episode title is “10 Moments in History that Changed Cameras.” You could make the case that the combination of multiple features surpassed the importance the first instance. Much like their skipping the Kodak and going straight to the Brownie. Tony even stated that Nikon didn’t invent the SLR but they “popularized” it. That said, Chelsea’s description of a daguerreotype as a print is flat out wrong. It was not a format where you could “print a photo” it is the photo— a unique item. While expensive at first, prices soon became much more affordable. Tony’s statement that the Brownie was the first snap shot camera, the first camera you (i.e. the non-photographer?) could take on a vacation and “record it” is equally wrong. That distinction could very well go to the Kodak introduced more than a decade earlier. Last edited by EssJayEff; 10-26-2019 at 02:15 PM.

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10-26-2019, 09:09 AM - 1 Like	#16
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Roger at lens rentals does a good job of mixing the geek and fun stories in his history articles. Lens Rentals \| Blog

10-26-2019, 09:16 AM - 1 Like	#17
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	You won't get much sympathy from me for self-inflicted wounds

10-26-2019, 10:16 AM - 1 Like	#19
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,217	Originally posted by microlight I just watched most of the Northrups' latest video, on 10 most important moments in photography history. It went well enough up to World War II, with daguerrotypes, box Brownies, 35mm, Leica and the Kwanon copy, but then they jumped from the rangefinder-type cameras to ... the introduction of the Nigh-kon F1 in 1959 - and it was a SLR! And then Nikon thereafter went on to become blah blah blah. So much for Asahi's Pentax in 1957 and the reign of the Spotmatic during the 60s. Disgusted of Basingstoke. That’s ridiculous. All the cool kids know the important step was from those mid-century rangefinders straight to Sony and Fuji digital mirrorless... They could have just skipped 50 or so years of wasted development /s -Eric

10-26-2019, 12:33 PM - 3 Likes	#23
Qwntm Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 856	Originally posted by StiffLegged As any fule kno, Tony's competences are, er, limited. He's not a physicist, nor an ethicist, and presumably neither is he an historian. The autumn colours are rather attractive this time of year and make much more appealing watching. (100 posts this month? Gosh what a chatterbox I've become!) He's sure rolling in the dough though... not sure how or why. Probably inherited. Scoring a home run aint such a big deal when your born on third base! Unlike some of us who were born miles from the stadium! I'm just thrilled that at 56 years old I got a seat behind the score board on the 4th level to watch the game...

10-26-2019, 12:50 PM - 1 Like	#24
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,661	I saw the video and also thought that they skipped over a lot of things. They jumped straight from the Daguerreotype to the Kodak Brownie, for instance. As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR. And the F mount is still around. Yes, I know, Pentax made SLRs before Nikon... The biggest oversight for me: the first fully fledged AF system was from Minolta, not Canon. All in all, I still liked it. It was entertaining and informative. Picking 10 top moments from history is always going to be subjective.

10-26-2019, 01:09 PM	#25
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	I used to watch them a bit a 2 or 3 years ago. I liked the professional feel to the videos and I don't mind constructive criticism however they seemed prone of runing foul by using broad generalisations (often turning them into click bait) - drove me mad. Still like them or hate them they have a substantial viewer base and its pity they don't cover Pentax anymore (from the point of view of brand awareness).

10-26-2019, 01:11 PM	#26
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by Wasp As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR. In the book I referenced above -- 500 Cameras -- the Nikon F is described in absolutely glowing terms, such as: "Perhaps no camera better represents photojournalism in the 1960s than than the Nikon F..." "...the Nikon F... quickly became "the" 35mm SLR." "...what sold it was its renown for quality and durability that may have almost single-handedly repositioned the Japanese camera industry, upending a post-war reputation for shoddy production." and so on. - Craig

10-26-2019, 01:17 PM	#27
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by monochrome Tony needed a K-1. Ricoh Imaging NA didn’t deliver. Ergo Pentax does not exist. Ricoh Imaging didn't deliver for free. Or, rather, "free" - in the end, we'd be the ones paying and I don't think I like the idea.

10-26-2019, 01:51 PM - 1 Like	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by microlight So much for Asahi's Pentax in 1957 and the reign of the Spotmatic during the 60s. So much for Exakta, Zeiss, Praktica, Rollei, and Hasselblad (yes medium format counts) too. In all fairness, a comprehensive history is a little broad in scope for their typical podcast/video. They have their regular viewers and those apparently are not too upset if the content is on the light side. What puzzles me is why so many PF members watch the videos and then complain about them here. If one knows they don't like the odor of kimchee, don't eat in Korean restaurants. Steve

10-26-2019, 02:17 PM	#30
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Wasp As for the Nikon F, one could make a case that it was the first modern SLR I agree. One might arguably counter that the Pentax S2, released the same year, was a worthy alternative* along with mature products from Exakta and KW/VEB in occupied Germany. Steve * The argument generally ends when it is pointed out that Asahi offered no lenses in 1959 having true automatic aperture actuation, something F-mount lenses offered from the start.