Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
6 Days Ago - 2 Likes   #1
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,332
Nikon imaging forecasting first year of losses

Nikon is joining mFT Olympus with their camera/lens business being forecast for the current financial year downwards and into the loss zone.

Nikon expect to see 10 billion yen losses for the current financial year.

"OP suffers from sales unit reduction, product mix change, and Euro FX impact"


"Imaging Products Business: Business environment has deteriorated further as market shrinkage
accelerates and competition intensifies. Increased costs from Z-mount system lineup expansion
also a burden.
"
Mirrorless is less the saviour than they hoped for:
"-Market deterioration in DCIL including ML cameras is worse than expected.
- Sales plan for ML cameras was overestimated."


Is that a signal to invest into a new Z mount now, seeing the still outrageous prices and questionable advantages?

Attached Images
 
6 Days Ago   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 20,710
Perhaps this is the best explanation as to why Ricoh has been "going slow" with regard to new cameras and lenses. Sinking a ton of money into new products when the market has turned down so much is a dangerous proposition. All of those Z Mount cameras cost a lot of R and D capital to bring to market (along with the new lenses that are needed for the Z mount).

It isn't necessarily a bad investment in the long run, but there may be quite a bit of pain if the market doesn't turn upward soon.

The whole mirrorless portion of this is a big question mark to me. Did Nikonians really want a new mirrorless mount or was this a situation where Nikon was grasping at straws for anything to increase otherwise stagnant sales? Or maybe some of both? Certainly it says something that the Z7 was released at 3400 dollars and now is selling (with the FTZ adapter) for 2700 and 2400 without the adapter on B and H right now. Certainly it seems that the D850 has done a better job of holding its price over time than either the Z6 or Z7.
6 Days Ago   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ffking's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Poole
Posts: 4,506
Not exactly relevant, but I used to dislike a lot of Nikon shooters for the same reason I dislike a lot Sony shooters now - they were people who bought the brand because they thought it was the best - not in the sense of why wouldn't you want the best, but in the sense of so they could look down on others. Now, however, as Nikon struggles, I strart remembering how much Nikon have contributed to camera tech, I realise how much I really want them to survive and continue to bring the qualities they do to the table

Last edited by ffking; 6 Days Ago at 04:15 AM.
6 Days Ago   #4
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 20,710
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Not exactly relevant, but I used to dislike a lot of Nikon shooters for the same reason I dislike a lot Sony shooters now - they were people who bought the brand because they thought it was the best - not in the sense of why wouldn't you want the best, but in the sense of so they could look down on others. Now, however, as Nikon struggles, I strart remembering how much Nikon have contributed to camera tech, I realise how much I really want them to survive and continue to bring the qualities they do to the table
I don't think that Nikon is in danger of "failing." At the same time, they may end up needing to tighten their belts more than they would like and slow releases of new gear and decrease production volumes, even for new, hot Z mount cameras.

6 Days Ago   #5
Pentaxian
Paul the Sunman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,246
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Now, however, as Nikon struggles, I start remembering how much Nikon have contributed to camera tech, I realise how much I really want them to survive and continue to bring the qualities they do to the table
Agreed. Very good innovation and equipment over a long period. However, they seem more vulnerable than Canon and Sony, and even Ricoh, as they are more reliant on the camera business. I hope Mirrorless doesn't sink them.
6 Days Ago   #6
Pentaxian
zzeitg's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South Bohemia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,479
Probably overhead costs too high? In the situation of rapidly dropping sales it naturally leads to loss.

Would be interesting to compare number of employees. Nikon had 25,729 in 2016. About Pentax we only know an old number (1,661 back in 2005). IMHO a lean company should have little easier situation these days.
6 Days Ago - 4 Likes   #7
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 4,903
@beholder3: thank you for your graph. Impressive and a bit sad indeed.

A few slides from the 'turn-around plan' they presented together with their Q2 financial results.







Source: https://www.nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/result/pdf/2020/20second_2_e.pdf

Last edited by Mistral75; 6 Days Ago at 04:35 AM.
6 Days Ago   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 20,710
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
@beholder3: thank you for your graph. Impressive and a bit sad indeed.

A few slides from the 'turn-around plan' they presented together with their Q2 financial results.







Source: https://www.nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/result/pdf/2020/20second_2_e.pdf
So I guess they are saying that they expect next year to be as bad as this one, but maybe 2021 things could improve?

6 Days Ago   #9
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 4,903
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
So I guess they are saying that they expect next year to be as bad as this one, but maybe 2021 things could improve?
Yet FY2020 is their current fiscal year, from the 1st of April, 2019 to the 31st of March, 2020.

The sentences under 'Profit plan' are therefore odd.
6 Days Ago   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,420
QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Nikon is joining mFT Olympus with their camera/lens business being forecast for the current financial year downwards and into the loss zone.

Nikon expect to see 10 billion yen losses for the current financial year.

"OP suffers from sales unit reduction, product mix change, and Euro FX impact"


"Imaging Products Business: Business environment has deteriorated further as market shrinkage
accelerates and competition intensifies. Increased costs from Z-mount system lineup expansion
also a burden.
"
Mirrorless is less the saviour than they hoped for:
"-Market deterioration in DCIL including ML cameras is worse than expected.
- Sales plan for ML cameras was overestimated."


Is that a signal to invest into a new Z mount now, seeing the still outrageous prices and questionable advantages?
Losing market share, losing profit, ... does not mean that Nikon loses money in this arena. They just make less profit than before.
6 Days Ago   #11
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 4,903
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Losing market share, losing profit, ... does not mean that Nikon loses money in this arena. They just make less profit than before.
A negative operating profit (a loss of 1.6bn during Q2 of FY2020 and a loss of 10bn forecast for the whole FY2020) means that Nikon's Imaging Products business is losing money.

As for the whole Nikon group, yes they are still turning a profit but much less than before. 76% less in FY2020 than in FY2019 is their current forecast.
6 Days Ago   #12
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,110
IMO, the demand for mirrorless isn't more than DSLR, it's all under the enveloppe of ILC cameras. When Canon and Nikon and Panasonic join the mirrorless offering, they actually contribute to stimulate the global demand for mirrorless, but their problem is to compete with Sony of complete offering. Typically, when Nikon/Canon advertise mirrorless , their customers about to make a purchase decision innevitably look at Sony offering. So the key to long term survival for Canon, Nikon and Panasonic to close the gap of lenses they have relative to Sony, as quicky as possible. So that to avoid Sony to collect customers from Canon, Nikon, Panasonic. Closing the lens gap with Sony requires heavy R&D, since Sony FE lineup is already built. Heavy R&D for Canikon means they will suffer for a couple of years, only to prevent Sony to capture most of the market. Canon and Nikon started MILC too late, increasing risk of failure, and that's why Sony exec invited Canon and Nikon to join.... Sony exec knew his chance of ripping advantages when Canon and Nikon enter their market without having an adequate lens lineup.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 6 Days Ago at 05:22 AM.
6 Days Ago   #13
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 4,903
^ Yet Nikon are now stating that, as far as their Imaging Products business is concerned, 'Efforts to reduce Sales and R&D expenses continue'.
6 Days Ago - 1 Like   #14
Forum Member




Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Tomsk, Russia
Posts: 90
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
to close the gap of lenses they have relative to Sony
I don't think it's that big of a problem. They have the advantage on that regard as there's already a huge fleet of F/EF lenses out there. It's the cameras themselves that are the problem imo.
6 Days Ago   #15
Pentaxian
Kozlok's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Albuquerque
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,707
I’ve seen charts like these before. It plainly says they are going to reduce staff, and consolidate manufacturing floor space. This is the beginning of either a resurgence or a death spiral. If the people that remain are the better people, it’s a resurgence. If the top people choose to go to greener pastures, it’s the death spiral. At this point it’s a psychology problem. Top performers don’t stick around for sad shrinking businesses. My money is on death spiral.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
business, cameras, losses, ml, nikon, photo industry, photography, sales
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nikon Experiences 'Extraordinary Losses,' Will Restructure Company interested_observer Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 79 02-22-2017 04:51 PM
Sunrise / Sunset Conditions and a Forecasting Tool interested_observer General Photography 6 03-25-2016 10:06 PM
Happy New Year Fanny Mae/Mack losses 400 billion Phil1 General Talk 24 01-04-2010 07:57 AM
Kodak cuts jobs, posts losses... Less film options for us? vinzer Pentax Film SLR Discussion 12 02-01-2009 05:12 AM
Samsung Reports quarter losses first time ever Blue Pentax News and Rumors 3 01-23-2009 08:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top