[Mistral75]

Did you notice that most of the lenses recently announced by Tokina were revamped or rebadged lenses?

• September 2016: FiRIN 20mm f/2 FE MF, latest original design
• 2017: nought
• February 2018: FiRIN 20mm f/2 FE AF = autofocus version of the former
• February 2018: opera 50mm f/1.4 = rebadged HD Pentax-D FA★ 50mm f/1.4 SDM AW
• February 2019: opera 16-28mm f/2.8 FF = revamped AT-X 16-28mm f/2.8 Pro FX
• April 2019: atx-i 100mm f/2.8 FE Macro = rehoused AT-X M100 Pro D, itself based on a Pentax patented optical formula, that of the smc Pentax-D FA 100mm f/2.8 Macro (2004), itself a slight revision of the optical formula of the smc Pentax-F 100mm f/2.8 Macro (1987)
• November 2019: atx-i 11-16mm f/2.8 CF = revamped AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX II, itself a second iteration of the AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX
• November 2019: atx-i 100mm f/2.8 FF Macro = revamped AT-X M100 Pro D, itself based on a Pentax patented optical formula, that of the smc Pentax-D FA 100mm f/2.8 Macro (2004), itself a slight revision of the optical formula of the smc Pentax-F 100mm f/2.8 Macro (1987)
• January 2020: atx-m 85mm f/1.8 FE = rebadged Viltrox PFU RBMH 85mm f/1.8 STM

From licensing Pentax-patented optical formulas to rebadging a Pentax lens to rebadging a Viltrox lens, quo non descendet?

[biz-engineer]

Doesn't matter, most people and even retailers have no clue and have not time to figure out what it what.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

If I remember correctly around 2017 they released 8-11 vista lenses for Cinematography

[Mistral75]

If I remember correctly around 2017 they released 8-11 vista lenses for Cinematography

Indeed, I was only writing about photographic lenses.

The five first Tokina Vista Prime lenses were announced in September 2016 at IBC, the sixth one in May 2018 at NAB. In April 2019 they announced the Tokina Vista One lenses, a limited edition with a mono-coated front element and consequently a 'vintage' rendering. In September 2019 at IBC they announced the seventh Tokina Vista Prime.

I don't know whether the Tokina Vista Prime lenses include original, Tokina designed optical formulas or rely, in whole or in part, on third-party optical formulas.

[PJ1]

Perhaps we have reached some kind of limit with the typical lens that most of us use. Maybe there are new coatings or changes to optical glass, but beyond that maybe the optical formulae are pretty much fixed for a given format (such as FF or APS-C). Any manufacturer would have to consider the size of the likely market before investing in a new design which may not be demonstrably better. For example, there is a reason for the longevity of the optical design of the F100/2.8. But look at Pentax glass: the venerable 50/1.4 has a 7 elements/ 6 groups optical formula that extends from the Takumar version through K, M, A, F and FA. Along the way it lost the thorium glass from the Takumar version, went to K mount with the K, lost a little size and weight with the M, went to KA mount with the A, got KAF mount with the F, and lost a little more weight with the FA. Would we say the Pentax was just badge engineering? The DFA 50/1.4 is an entirely different beast. But it is not a lens that many of us would shoot with. The old formula with a few tweaks is still doing the job.

[HYS]

I know that 100/2.8 Macro is a Tokina design. But no matter of it - this is my favorite lens!

[Mistral75]

I know that 100/2.8 Macro is a Tokina design. But no matter of it - this is my favorite lens!

I'm afraid it is not: it was patented by Pentax and then licensed to Tokina.

[Paul the Sunman]

Is the absence of any K-mount Tokina lenses a consequence of the deal with Pentax? If so, it's short-sighted from Ricoh/Pentax. The lack of 3rd party options only hurts the brand.

[Rondec]

I know that 100/2.8 Macro is a Tokina design. But no matter of it - this is my favorite lens!

Tokina licensed a lot of Pentax's optical formulas. The only lens where this happened in reverse was with the DA 12-24 which was a Tokina formula.

This created a lot of confusion where people claimed that Tokina originated all of the designs, which was untrue.

[HYS]

I'm afraid it is not: it was patented by Pentax and then licensed to Tokina.

Sorry! Maybe I am in a mistake...

[clickclick]

Makes me think of the sharing of automobile platforms across different manufacturers.

[lytrytyr]

But look at Pentax glass: the venerable 50/1.4 has a 7 elements/ 6 groups optical formula that extends from the Takumar version through K, M, A, F and FA. Along the way it lost the thorium glass from the Takumar version, went to K mount with the K, lost a little size and weight with the M, went to KA mount with the A, got KAF mount with the F, and lost a little more weight with the FA.

It's not that simple, as the formula changed along the way.
For example, the M has a flatter cemented join,
which supposedly makes it better at infinity.

And of course, the coatings have also changed with time.

Even if Tokinas have shared lens elements with Pentax,
the coatings have differed.

[stevebrot]

Tokina, king of badge engineering

Nope...that title goes to Samyang.


Steve

[dsmithhfx]

Has been very, very common in the industry for a long, long time: bodies, lenses, even film stocks.

[Mistral75]

^ Indeed, yet it's the fist time I see a Japanese company rebranding a lens designed by a Chinese one.