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02-13-2020, 02:48 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Iíve bought new: K10D; K-01; K-3; K-1; KP. They all still work. Why should I buy a new camera?
How do you fair with that logic when it comes to lenses?

02-13-2020, 02:51 PM - 2 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Why did you buy all those cameras if the first one still worked?
Oooohhh! Shiney!!! Me want!!!
02-13-2020, 02:57 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
How do you fair with that logic when it comes to lenses?
See the list linked in my Sig. Very few dupe modern lenses. Aside from the K-series collection each lens has a specific use case. The hobby stuff is, well, hobby stuff. I actually use AF lenses that have an aperture ring on my manual film cameras too.

Is there a specific use case K-new will fill that either K-1 or KP doesn’t? If so, I might buy it and sell all the other APSc cameras, but my appetite for the new for the sake of newness has lessened - which is apparently a common change.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-13-2020 at 03:07 PM.
02-13-2020, 02:58 PM - 2 Likes   #34
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I just received an email from my local brick and mortar camera store asking me if I would like to pre-order a Canon T8i. Doesn't Canon know that DSLRs are dying? Especially APS-C DSLRs; it amazes me how a big company like Canon can be so stupid.

02-13-2020, 03:54 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
I just received an email from my local brick and mortar camera store asking me if I would like to pre-order a Canon T8i. Doesn't Canon know that DSLRs are dying? Especially APS-C DSLRs; it amazes me how a big company like Canon can be so stupid.
Canon probably has a boatload of entry- and mid-level EF-S lenses to sell, so the Rebel DSLR line survives with one more iteration. I bet once the lens supply dwindles, the Rebellion is over.

Perhaps the now-bald Andre Agassi can star in the final Rebel commercial.
02-13-2020, 04:52 PM   #36
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Looking at an MRSP for the T8i / 850D of $750 (US) without and $900 with kit lens seems a little more reasonable (is it with or without tax?) than 900€ / 1000€ (including sales tax), but I can't ever imagine them selling heaps of them at those prices when a 77D (about the level of the T8i?) can be had for $550 / 650€ or an 80D (much better camera than the T8i imo) for $1000 / 800€. And if they're not meant to be sold at those prices, why even bother making the MRSP that high? I just don't get all that marketing psychology bullsh*. Or is that just meant to push the crowd into being more accepting towards the higher prices of their mirrorless offerings?

(US prices from bhphoto, € prices from german price watching service, so an 80D can probably be found somewhere in the US for much cheaper?)
02-13-2020, 05:42 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Where do you see that? The mirrorless shipments are basically staying flat. The upgrade cycle is now longer, so the sales they lose because of that, they just manage to compensate with new customers or with customers transitioning from DSLRs.

Meanwhile, the MILC market value is now exceeding the DSLR one in all markets, including the Americas. It's only in unit numbers that MILCs are slightly trailing behind DSLRs still - but by the end of this year, that should change as well.

I just plotted graphs from CIPA data on my blog.
So did you come back from your seven year hiatus to say "I told you so?"
02-13-2020, 06:44 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
So did you come back from your seven year hiatus to say "I told you so?"
I'll be more interested in whether or not MILCs win the year. They did win the first three months, although they didn't win 2019, just the end of it. And they won the lenses as well. Now that the camera companies fooled them into switching to MILC, then they have to have new lenses. That's way better than seeing you buy a new SLR and use your old lenses. You have to wonder how much of the success of MILCs is the availability of older DSLRs that are available to DSLR users, made available by switchers. That would push MILC numbers up, the used DSLRs won't be recorded.

Personally for me, with the lenses I had etc. me switching would be a huge boon for some MILC company. My Pentax lenses go for cheap to Pentax's customers. They'd sell me MILC lenses at a premium. As well as a new body. They just put in the "compatibility" thing so you think you won't have to spend more money. Well folks MILC users are spending more money on lenses than DSLR shooters so, no surprises there. It certainly isn't matter of economy.

Maybe such changes are good for the shooter, maybe not, but you can't argue, they are good for the camera companies that are on top of the scam.

I look at everything and think "y'all been had."

02-13-2020, 09:57 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
He's talking about the drop in units produced, not shipments in units
Really? So why is this thread titled "CIPA shipment details" then?

---------- Post added 02-13-20 at 08:58 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
So did you come back from your seven year hiatus to say "I told you so?"
It was worth the wait.

---------- Post added 02-13-20 at 09:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
That IS what his graph shows
You are correct, my bad. The comments about MILC sales dropping made me mix the lines up. The graph is then correct, but then I don't understand the comments. CIPA only provides production and shipment numbers, not sales information. Those value numbers that they report represent the value of what is being produced/shipped.
02-14-2020, 01:17 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Really? So why is this thread titled "CIPA shipment details" then?
Because I was half asleep when posting. It is still about the drop, not units.
02-14-2020, 04:36 AM   #41
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The thread title reflects the data represented.

It shows cameras sold and shipped to dealers and the factory price excluding dealer margins.
02-14-2020, 06:55 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Really? So why is this thread titled "CIPA shipment details" then?
Why are you so defensive?
If you weren't just coming here to try and stick it to everyone you wouldn't care. The graph is what it is. He could have called it "deputy dawg's camera report" for all I care.
02-14-2020, 11:01 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'll be more interested in whether or not MILCs win the year.
How much of a "win" is it when everyone is losing?
02-14-2020, 11:15 AM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
How much of a "win" is it when everyone is losing?
It's a win that doesn't mean nearly as much as winning did at any time in the last 10 years up to this point. It's gotten to be kind of a booby prize. Sales being what they are, you have to ask, will the total number of mirrorless in use ever top DSLRs? That's the next mountain for MILCs to climb. But that being said, selling those new cameras is going to mean a lot of new lens sales.

Unfortunately flickr has changed the way it represents camera use. It's no longer easy to tell which cameras are being used most.

When execs are looking at these numbers they have to be asking how bad did we do? And then being happy if it's not to bad, or worse than expected.
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