[Serkevan]

It is spreading everywhere. Young people can be even with out symptons which make them quite good for carrying the virus to elder people at home. It can take several days untill one can feel the fever and all, so when cases are coming up, it most sertainly has been going around for a while.

Our doctors now are saying, that keep calm and wash you hands. Be aware of normal seasona flu and influens virus. That is still as dangerous for elder people(and people with astma or similar weaknesess as this new thing is. Breathing masks are not as efficient as washing your hands often and properly with soap, and try to not to touch your face when you are out and about. Because that is where it actually goes in, from your hand to your system.


Keep safe guys!

In Germany, our University sent out a recommendation from the city council not to go straight to the doctor if with a fever - call first, to avoid unnecessarily exposing other people (and chances are, at the general practitioner's, that the "other people" will be more vulnerable elders).

The incubation period seems to be up to 20 days, which is very long. An asymptomatic carrier can spread the virus a LOT in that period of time...

[Rondec]

I wonder if it is time for our bearded members to shave?

(The CDC basically said that masks are ineffective when worn with beards -- not a good enough seal I guess).

[BigMackCam]

I wonder if it is time for our bearded members to shave?

(The CDC basically said that masks are ineffective when worn with beards -- not a good enough seal I guess).

It's the next job on my list

Though, the advice re masks is inconsistent; conflicting, even. Everyone seems to agree that they're helpful in reducing the spread when worn by an infected individual. For those wearing masks to reduce the possibility of becoming infected, opinion seems to range from this being entirely ineffective (bearded or not), having some benefit if you were to inadvertently touch your face with the virus on your hands, to somewhat effective as a barrier to droplets entering the nose or mouth.

I have a supply of three-ply surgical masks, and a smaller supply of folding FFP3-spec masks, all European-manufactured and UK sourced. Since none of them form an air-tight seal against the face, I really doubt their effectiveness, but it seems logical that some barrier is better than none. Better still is avoiding crowded places and public transport where possible, and sanitising hands after touching anything.

[repaap]

Mask would be good if one is already infected. Why one would like to have a mask is to prevent any direct splashes fom someone who is coughing or so. But this is not so common. Because many uses their napkin/sleeve or atleast point their cough/sneeze away. Ofcourse if you are sitting in plane right next to each otherit could be different but still most possible way to get it is through your own hands.

[aslyfox]

I wonder if it is time for our bearded members to shave?

(The CDC basically said that masks are ineffective when worn with beards -- not a good enough seal I guess).

now that is going too far ( at least for me )

[ but if you are truly concerned yes, you need to not only not have no facial hair but also to be clean shaven every day from what I have read ]

who is wearing gloves ????

of course you also shouldn't be using a mask according to the authorities I have read

heading via plane to Florida, wife attending conference with international participants, will be going back to Yellowstone by plane, and later this summer flying to San Francisco and ball games if not cancelled all with a neatly trimmed beard

not ignoring what is going on but playing the odds

wish us luck

[ZeljkoS]

If masks are so ineffective, I question then why is all medical staff required to wear them when working with infected people?

Doesn't make sense unless statements like these are intended to prevent shortages of masks for medical staff, who are at higher risk of being infected.

If everyone is buying masks it will be a problem for hospitals to obtain them, and of course prices will soar.


Which leads me to the next matter... insane prices on respirator masks. Police should take note and make a list. When this is over, please arrest merchants that wanted to profit from this.
If there are no laws against increasing prices during global health crisis, then there should be.

[Serkevan]

If masks are so ineffective, I question then why is all medical staff required to wear them when working with infected people?

Doesn't make sense unless statements like these are intended to prevent shortages of masks for medical staff, who are at higher risk of being infected.

If everyone is buying masks it will be a problem for hospitals to obtain them, and of course prices will soar.


Which leads me to the next matter... insane prices on respirator masks. Police should take note and make a list. When this is over, please arrest merchants that wanted to profit from this.
If there are no laws against increasing prices during global health crisis, then there should be.

Because they prevent the wearer from infecting other people, mainly by blocking liquid droplets. The last thing you want is an asymptomatic surgeon sneezing into a patient's open ribcage, or dropping three more strains of different viruses and bacteria on an infected person's overwhelmed immune system.

[ZeljkoS]

Because they prevent the wearer from infecting other people, mainly by blocking liquid droplets. The last thing you want is an asymptomatic surgeon sneezing into a patient's open ribcage, or dropping three more strains of different viruses and bacteria on an infected person's overwhelmed immune system.

I know why they are required to wear them, that's clear. Surgeons are required to wear masks to prevent any kind of contamination during procedures, even a common cold can kill if immune system is compromised.


I want to say that it's not entirely truthful to say that masks are ineffective. They certainly help, better then being without any protection at all, but the motive is to prevent shortages for medical staff who are at disadvantage, because they HAVE TO work with infected.

[repaap]

No, actually. It is in that way better to be with out if you are not a doctor/nurse and are still healty. This does not say that even if you have cloves and all that you should not take care of your hygiene. Infact. If one is wearing on those things for several hours and perhaps days, it is more likely going to get you.

It is this hysteria, and ’I believe’ thing to begin to go around with masks and cloves and what not, if one is actually carrying that dicease. And have to go out for one or other reason.

It is selfidness and by doing it that is restricting resourses for actual need. This is what doctors are trying to say. In short

[Serkevan]

I know why they are required to wear them, that's clear. Surgeons are required to wear masks to prevent any kind of contamination during procedures, even a common cold can kill if immune system is compromised.


I want to say that it's not entirely truthful to say that masks are ineffective. They certainly help, better then being without any protection at all, but the motive is to prevent shortages for medical staff who are at disadvantage, because they HAVE TO work with infected.

I don't have the time to search for it right now but there are studies that show that for aerosol-propagated pathogens like this coronavirus, having regular "surgical" masks increases risk of infection unless you always* have it on around infected people and practice extreme discipline, never touching the mask under any circumstance. Otherwise, most of the virus simply go through as PM2.5 and PM10 particles are not stopped by these masks, and on top of that you're just concentrating the pathogens on the outside of the mask, which makes it likelier to get infected if you touch the mask itself... and touching the mask by reflex is almost a given over extended periods of time considering the discomfort they cause and how easily the get out of position whenever one talks.

If you want effective protection you need a full face respirator unit with good filters.

*And always means always.

EDIT: Actually the first google result is already pretty decent: Effectiveness of surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols. - PubMed - NCBI
The mask does not block the virus, and COVID-19 seems to have longer surface survival than influenza so the effectiveness will be even lower.
EDIT 2: Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: a systematic review | Epidemiology & Infection | Cambridge Core
Incorrectly wearing masks increases contagion risk over not wearing them at all (source: Public health measures
during the influenza A(H1N1)2009 pandemic - WHO)

[ZeljkoS]

No, actually. It is in that way better to be with out if you are not a doctor/nurse and are still healty. This does not say that even if you have cloves and all that you should not take care of your hygiene. Infact. If one is wearing on those things for several hours and perhaps days, it is more likely going to get you.

It is this hysteria, and ’I believe’ thing to begin to go around with masks and cloves and what not, if one is actually carrying that dicease. And have to go out for one or other reason.

It is selfidness and by doing it that is restricting resourses for actual need. This is what doctors are trying to say. In short

I agree with the last line. I think you meant to say selfishness. And that's what the message should be. Along with a better explanation why is it not effective, because people learned not to trust official statements.

I don't have a mask and it would not be effective for me as I have a beard (and I don't plan on shaving it yet). It was my observation of how the message is received in public and that people are still lining up to buy masks (despite insane prices).

As for the links that were provided as proving masks are ineffective:
Quote:
FINDINGS:

Live influenza virus was measurable from the air behind all surgical masks tested. The data indicate that a surgical mask will reduce exposure to aerosolised infectious influenza virus; reductions ranged from 1.1- to 55-fold (average 6-fold), depending on the design of the mask.

[Serkevan]

Oh, in that regard absolutely - lack of knowledge in these situations is an open door to unreasonable panic. The medical authorities are terrible at PR as well, because just giving the recommendations instead of explaining in very simple terms is not really reassuring...

[ZeljkoS]

Doctors and medical staff are usually not forthcoming to provide details, and are usually annoyed when they are asked to provide explanation about procedures. At least from my personal experience...

Better PR and providing more details, which have roots in scientific research, would be helpful in reducing panic and compulsive buying of medical supplies.


Best prevention is avoiding crowds and washing hands more frequently and more thoroughly.

[RGlasel]

lack of knowledge in these situations is an open door to unreasonable panic

The problem isn't lack of knowledge, it is the knowing things to be true that aren't really true that creates distrust and distrust leads to panic. No one (not even the WHO) really knows the best method to prevent contagion of this virus, all anyone has are "educated" guesses, and educated guesses are wrong often enough that there needs to be a backup. Any harm from wearing a mask is to the wearer, unless the mask wearer decides to increase the frequency and closeness of their contacts with strangers. It is more likely that mask wearers will have less contact with strangers, so why not encourage people to wear masks since the increased risk is minimal and there is a possibility it can provide some benefit in slowing down the spread of the virus. Frequent sanitizing of hands and wearing a mask is going to provide more benefit than only doing one of these things. The only other option is to use force to make people stay at home and that will definitely lead to panic.

[biz-engineer]

It would be nice if our governments would organize charters of negative tested people to a nice tropical island free of virus.