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02-24-2020, 04:37 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
The dealer said well Canon doesn't make printed manuals anymore, just the CD disc ... I do a lot of outdoor photography and I don't carry my laptop with me
I find that appalling. Even indoors I don't want to fire up my PC just to look up how to get it into some mode I'm not familiar with. Even if I do, I can flick through and home in on the relevant info in a 100+ page booklet within seconds, but it would take me many minutes of tedious scrolling through computer screens.

And no, searching for a key word does not generally work well in my experience as it either leads you up numerous false trails or fails to find anything at all because the authors are using a different term from what you would expect.

I believe the people making these decisions are of a generation unfamiliar with handling books and not realising their strengths over electronic media for some purposes. Another reason to avoid Canon

02-24-2020, 07:44 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm kind of surprised that your sister isn't happy with the SL1's noise performance. At the same physical reproduction dimensions - looking at DPR's studio shot comparison in "Comp" mode - I'd say there's less than one stop difference between the SL1 and the Pentax K-3 (in favour of the K-3), even at ISO 3200 or 6400. That's pretty impressive considering the release date of the SL1, its entry level status and how much it cost.

The SL1 is a cute little camera. I'm not a Canon guy, but I tried one at my local big electronics retailer, and I rather liked it... Very small and light for a DSLR, but pretty nice to use considering how few controls it has...
She's not up in arms about it. Part of it is user error; she for some reason shot portraits (she built a side business around this little camera) with the ISO set to 3200 or 6400 for some reason. And it was in daylight... so that was completely unnecessary with a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 zoom mounted. In any case, high ISO IQ from the SL1 seems okay in this department, but the 77D seems like a clear step upward from there, per online samples I've looked at to figure out a body to suggest.


She loves the size and weight of the SL1 and does lot like the weight of my K-5II. I think the 77D is a good compromise there as well. I have to admit that I am a bit jealous of the lens selection for EOS; a Canon 100mm f2 would be very nice for portraits and general telephoto work, and she seems happy with the Canon 17-55 f2.8 L that she picked up after the Tamron's zoom mechanism locked up, turning it into a rather large, slow prime.

Oh, and p.s. I don't like the SL1 as it's too small for my hands.
02-25-2020, 10:05 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
One of the reasons for buying the K-3 was more ability to crop. If you crop a K-3 image to 16 MP (taken at 1600 ISO) , and compare it to an uncropped 16 MP image, you're going to see a difference. I didn't get exactly what i was hoping for. If I shoot the K-1 with crop lens the useful area is usually between 28 and 32 MP and cropped to 16 MP will have K-5 noise but more resolution. That's what I was hoping for with the K-3.
My expectations when migrating from my K-5 II to K-3 II maybe were less than yours - I'm very happy I made the switch. Considering that I use my K-3 II mostly with manual-focus long teles, I don't believe there is an APS-C DSLR more suitable for that than the K-3 II.
02-25-2020, 07:51 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If we are restricted to talking about subjects that involve real news, this place may be mostly silent for half a year - have you checked with Adam, who just ran contests that had the effect of increasing posts???
That sort of posting contest thing has been done numerous times of the years.

02-28-2020, 09:40 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I find that appalling. Even indoors I don't want to fire up my PC just to look up how to get it into some mode I'm not familiar with. Even if I do, I can flick through and home in on the relevant info in a 100+ page booklet within seconds, but it would take me many minutes of tedious scrolling through computer screens.

And no, searching for a key word does not generally work well in my experience as it either leads you up numerous false trails or fails to find anything at all because the authors are using a different term from what you would expect.

I believe the people making these decisions are of a generation unfamiliar with handling books and not realising their strengths over electronic media for some purposes. Another reason to avoid Canon
I invariably lose the paper manual and end up downloading a pdf of it anyway. Plus paper takes up space, and if I'm not diligent (and I'm not) I'll go look for a particular manual and find everything but that, including manuals for the 2002 Canon point-and-shoot that hasn't been turned on in 15 years, the leaf blower that doesn't work any more, the refrigerator from the old house, etc, etc.

With the pdf it's either in my "pdf manuals" folder under documents, or I can download it in a minute or two, and search for what I want. I have little use for paper any more, and I've certainly never carried the manual around with me while I'm using whatever the manual is for.
02-28-2020, 11:02 AM   #66
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I prefer not having paper manuals.
02-28-2020, 05:10 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I invariably lose the paper manual and end up downloading a pdf of it anyway. Plus paper takes up space,
Space? About 10mm of shelf space!

When you are paying several hundred or over a thousand £/$ on a camera there is no excuse not to include a paper manual and a manual on a CD and make the manual availabel for download. Then you can throw the manual and/or CD away if you dont want it, and/or ignore the download. Then everyone can be happy.

02-28-2020, 06:11 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Space? About 10mm of shelf space!

When you are paying several hundred or over a thousand £/$ on a camera there is no excuse not to include a paper manual and a manual on a CD and make the manual availabel for download. Then you can throw the manual and/or CD away if you dont want it, and/or ignore the download. Then everyone can be happy.
Sure, I guess. But I'm just recycling it or adding it to the pile. Seems like a waste.
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