[reh321]

Perhaps we should return to the subject of the thread, folks?

Thanks

If we are restricted to talking about subjects that involve real news, this place may be mostly silent for half a year - have you checked with Adam, who just ran contests that had the effect of increasing posts???

[builttospill]

Their top three for beginners/students are terrible recommendations. The Nikon D3500, as with all D3xxx series, doesn't offer bracketing at all. The SL3 and T100, just like many of their new offerings, including the T7, don't come with a universal hot shoe pin. Canon was really stupid removing this pin, as only proprietary hot shoe accessories will now work. Sony finally removed their propriety hot shoe, and Canon removes the pin...

[BigMackCam]

If we are restricted to talking about subjects that involve real news, this place may be mostly silent for half a year

That'd suit me and the other moderators fine This forum is typically where we get the most friction Speaking of which...

This thread started out well enough - not news or rumour, admittedly (hence why I've now moved it to the Photographic Industry forum) - but quickly turned into a bun fight about film vs digital. We've other, more appropriate threads and forums for such discussions... but none for bickering.

have you checked with Adam, who just ran contests that had the effect of increasing posts???

I can't speak for others, but personally I'm delighted that we've gained welcome and valued new members as a result of the competitions; plus, some existing members who've never posted much in the past have begun to post more. I can't pretend I especially enjoyed the competition period, as there was a lot of "noise"... but that's mostly died down now, and the end result has justified the means, I'd say

[Serkevan]

Their top three for beginners/students are terrible recommendations. The Nikon D3500, as with all D3xxx series, doesn't offer bracketing at all. The SL3 and T100, just like many of their new offerings, including the T7, don't come with a universal hot shoe pin. Canon was really stupid removing this pin, as only proprietary hot shoe accessories will now work. Sony finally removed their propriety hot shoe, and Canon removes the pin...

To be honest I have bracketed about a dozen times , and I have just recently bought a flash (which I haven't properly used so far). If you're on a strict budget, they are cameras that take great pictures. I would never recommend one simply because they don't have enough dials and they are just too small for my hands, though

[lesmore49]

As Digital Camera World says about the K1:

"Pentax makes only one full-frame DSLR, but it's a cracker!"

I agree !

I would add, how many 'crackers' does a camera line need ? I think one full frame is sufficient and I'm pleased to have my own K1.

[BigMackCam]

Their top three for beginners/students are terrible recommendations. The Nikon D3500, as with all D3xxx series, doesn't offer bracketing at all. The SL3 and T100, just like many of their new offerings, including the T7, don't come with a universal hot shoe pin. Canon was really stupid removing this pin, as only proprietary hot shoe accessories will now work. Sony finally removed their propriety hot shoe, and Canon removes the pin...

To be honest I have bracketed about a dozen times , and I have just recently bought a flash (which I haven't properly used so far). If you're on a strict budget, they are cameras that take great pictures. I would never recommend one simply because they don't have enough dials and they are just too small for my hands, though

The lack of bracketing on the low-end Nikon bodies seems intended to push folks into upgrading as they become more experienced and/or demanding, or to up-sell them into the D5xxx series at point of sale.

Canon's use of a proprietary hot shoe (as with Sony's previous strategy) clearly aims to increase revenue from branded accessories - in this case, to make up for the lower price of entry on the camera itself.

Both practices could be considered shrewd at best, duplicitous at worst. Since most folks buying these low-end models will likely be less well informed (if at all) about the potential significance of such features, I'd say the manufacturers are being somewhat sneaky

[Wheatfield]

Their top three for beginners/students are terrible recommendations. The Nikon D3500, as with all D3xxx series, doesn't offer bracketing at all. The SL3 and T100, just like many of their new offerings, including the T7, don't come with a universal hot shoe pin. Canon was really stupid removing this pin, as only proprietary hot shoe accessories will now work. Sony finally removed their propriety hot shoe, and Canon removes the pin...

These companies do massive numbers of surveys to figure out what features they can strip off of one level of camera and what needs to be in place on another level. The idea being to slice and dice the market into as many niches as they can, thereby sucking people into the hamster wheel of perpetual upgrades.

[reh321]

The lack of bracketing on the low-end Nikon bodies seems intended to push folks into upgrading as they become more experienced and/or demanding, or to up-sell them into the D5xxx series at point of sale.

Canon's use of a proprietary hot shoe (as with Sony's previous strategy) clearly aims to increase revenue from branded accessories - in this case, to make up for the lower price of entry on the camera itself.

Both practices could be considered shrewd at best, duplicitous at worst. Since most folks buying these low-end models will likely be less well informed (if at all) about the potential significance of such features, I'd say the manufacturers are being somewhat sneaky

I am currently using the flash which I originally used to photograph our daughters born in 1987 and 1991.

I would hate a system which forced me to purchase a new system which was "new" only in the sense of their interface.

[builttospill]

Since most folks buying these low-end models will likely be less well informed (if at all) about the potential significance of such features, I'd say the manufacturers are being somewhat sneaky

This is why I'm frustrated with Canon's poor decision. I have more and more students bringing these entry-level cameras to classes and they won't work with studio triggers and they can't complete assignments outside of class because external flash triggers won't work either.

[Serkevan]

The lack of bracketing on the low-end Nikon bodies seems intended to push folks into upgrading as they become more experienced and/or demanding, or to up-sell them into the D5xxx series at point of sale.

Canon's use of a proprietary hot shoe (as with Sony's previous strategy) clearly aims to increase revenue from branded accessories - in this case, to make up for the lower price of entry on the camera itself.

Both practices could be considered shrewd at best, duplicitous at worst. Since most folks buying these low-end models will likely be less well informed (if at all) about the potential significance of such features, I'd say the manufacturers are being somewhat sneaky

They are certainly sneaky, as the features they remove are not really costly to keep. I was mostly saying that because I'm sure that most people who buy "a" camera to tale better pics than the phone while on a trip won't particularly care to learn, and they won't worry too much about it. If they are on a photography class that's a completely different story, a barebones entry level model will be inadequate (in particular, the lack of standard hot shoe pin)...

Personally, since photography is a somewhat expensive hobby to get into, I spent about a week researching camera stuff to decide on brand and model - the obvious conclusion was to get an old second hand camera, but one that was top-shelf at the time: an older flagship model would have 95% of the features of a new one, and any limitations in the sensor would be beyond my skill level for a long while. However, I understand that not everyone is willing to sort through hundreds of internet reviews of gear old and new.

[pres589]

The discussion about lack of automatic bracketing on the D3xxx made me look this up for my K-5 II and lo, it actually has this feature, and I've never once used it or thought to look for it. This seems like one of those things where a new shooter is better of knowing about bracketing, doing it themselves for a while, and then moving to a model of camera that does it for them on command. This way they understand the concept well and why it might be used as well before being handed the feature. I see the Nikon D3xxx line of cameras kind of like the old "My First Sony" line of products from the 90's. They get people into an interchangeable lens camera with more features and ability vs. a cell phone but are not overly complicated vs. more advanced cameras, and the pricing on them makes them more attainable than the K-70 or xxD EOS cameras from Canon.

[BigMackCam]

The discussion about lack of automatic bracketing on the D3xxx made me look this up for my K-5 II and lo, it actually has this feature, and I've never once used it or thought to look for it. This seems like one of those things where a new shooter is better of knowing about bracketing, doing it themselves for a while, and then moving to a model of camera that does it for them on command. This way they understand the concept well and why it might be used as well before being handed the feature. I see the Nikon D3xxx line of cameras kind of like the old "My First Sony" line of products from the 90's. They get people into an interchangeable lens camera with more features and ability vs. a cell phone but are not overly complicated vs. more advanced cameras, and the pricing on them makes them more attainable than the K-70 or xxD EOS cameras from Canon.

Even my old *ist DL has exposure bracketing

I agree that it's good for new photographers to learn how to do things manually, and it's really no big deal to change shutter speed or aperture for multiple shots at different exposure values. But, inclusion of automated bracketing would provide room for growth, and there's really no cost-saving reason for Nikon to have excluded it on the D3xxx series... especially considering all the other automated features.

[Lord Lucan]

A Canon 850D? I had to read that twice - did they mean a Nikon D850? Nope, they are serious. What is it about Canon and Nikon that they use nearly the same names? Back in the 80's Nikon had F, F2, F3, F4 while Canon filled in with F1, and for direct rival pro cameras too.

My first 35mm camera was a K-1000 I bought new in '77, but sadly, it was stolen from me at gun point

I know that the K1000 has become a must-have cult, but that's extreme

One of the two 'cons' is the battery life of "670 shots." Gee, carry an extra battery

It is amazing what some people complain about. Some guy on the internet recently was complaining that the K-1 did not record full EXIF data when using old manual lenses.

Nikon D3500 is number one. It's the best, I suppose. Number 1 is usually the best.Pentax K1 Mk II comes last: the worst DSLR of 2020 according to Digital Camera World.

I did not read the order as an order of merit - it looked arbitrary to me.

I'm not sure what the point of these rankings are. They could really only be of interest to complete newbies. Anyone who's used a DSLR for a few years will have an idea of what suits them, based on what and how they shoot.

As I said, I did not read this list as a ranking, only as info on these cameras with some plus and minus points, generally fair I thought. No matter how long I've used a DSLR for, if I'm looking to buy a new model I would still need to look around for info on new models and this would be a source. I would not rely on a single article of course.

[normhead]

The discussion about lack of automatic bracketing on the D3xxx made me look this up for my K-5 II and lo, it actually has this feature, and I've never once used it or thought to look for it. This seems like one of those things where a new shooter is better of knowing about bracketing, doing it themselves for a while, and then moving to a model of camera that does it for them on command. This way they understand the concept well and why it might be used as well before being handed the feature. I see the Nikon D3xxx line of cameras kind of like the old "My First Sony" line of products from the 90's. They get people into an interchangeable lens camera with more features and ability vs. a cell phone but are not overly complicated vs. more advanced cameras, and the pricing on them makes them more attainable than the K-70 or xxD EOS cameras from Canon.

I had friend buy one (D3xxx). We were out shooting a sunset, a place where bracketing can come in handy, I spent 15 minutes going through Nikon menu system before I gave up. That's something I really still can't comprehend.

[Serkevan]

I had friend buy one (D3xxx). We were out shooting a sunset, a place where bracketing can come in handy, I spent 15 minutes going through Nikon menu system before I gave up. That's something I really still can't comprehend.

I've found myself in the same situation (or any other backlit environment); normally it takes me less time to give the e-dial a couple twirls than to set the camera to bracket If I'm on a tripod, different story, bracketing is more practical (particularly if I'm going to stitch later).