[WorksAsIntended]

EVF images are never "downsampled", just as this would require both full readout plus downsampling on the fly. Just the same as video. The EVF is just a secondary display, no different to the main display on CMOS cameras.


The K3 I sensor doesnt provide 30 FPS full 24 Mpx sensor readout plus downsampling only because you can take and view on the display 30 FPS uncropped video.

Both low res displays on a mirrorless camera only show selective pixel readout.




Not. Any other parameter you might want to introduce is useless.


MPx/sec is the key compound measure for a cameras ability to capture image data and move it through whatever pipeline and processing into internal buffer before writing it to memory card. Nobody cares what happens in partial steps in between.
A sports shooter doesnt want 60 FPS 1.2 MPx images. They want the full data saved.

It is not a full readout for the evf, but it is also not just the amount of pixxels shown, especially for the high resolution cameras with evf. I cannot find specific data for the z7 right now, but it is a down sample, quite similar to the milcs that downsample 5k readouts for 4k video.

MPx/sec is very unefficient. The only thing that matters are fps, buffer size and time to clear the buffer. The nx1 can buffer pictures of less than 2 seconds in burst mode and takes a very long time to put them to sd card. How can this be a valid criteria for sports shooting or determining the compute power of the camera? The Canon 1DxM3 puts out roughly 400 MPx/s and is a totally different beast in any usecase. It computes everything faster and shoots faster by any means, there is nothing the NX1 can do faster, simply nothing.

With your parameter, the NX1 beats the Canon 1DxM3 in terms of speed and compute power and this is redicoules.

edit: Sony claims that even the A7 III supersamples 24MPx to 4k for video

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Last edited by WorksAsIntended; 04-07-2020 at 08:16 AM.

[beholder3]

The Canon 1DxM3 puts out roughly 400 MPx/s and ... It computes everything faster and shoots faster by any means, there is nothing the NX1 can do faster, simply nothing.

Wrong again. The old NX1 pumps out more image real estate / information per time than the 1dx3, that is for sure.

With your parameter, the NX1 beats the Canon 1DxM3 in terms of speed and compute power and this is redicoules.

Well the NX1 has more speed regarding image data creation. If it also has more computing power: Who knows? I don't care actually. The only relevant question is how many images at which resolution can it create per second.

edit: Sony claims that even the A7 III supersamples 24MPx to 4k for video

It still isn't able to capture images meaningfully faster than the K-3 I at the exact same resolution.

And now off to the ignorelist to clean up the thread.

[WorksAsIntended]

Wrong again. The old NX1 pumps out more image real estate / information per time than the 1dx3, that is for sure.



Well the NX1 has more speed regarding image data creation. If it also has more computing power: Who knows? I don't care actually. The only relevant question is how many images at which resolution can it create per second.



It still isn't able to capture images meaningfully faster than the K-3 I at the exact same resolution.

And now off to the ignorelist to clean up the thread.

It shows simply that your parameter to judge a camera speed, MPx/s, is completly useless. The NX1 is completly useless to shoot something quickly compared to the Canon 1DxM3, same for a D5, that has even much lower MPx/s. It is not a useful benchmark, not for compute capability, not for anything related to taking pictures. It is just a useless number as a lot of different stuff is calculated at the very same time with the same hardware parts. Its like measuring the speed of a bike with gears by comparing cadence.

[Class A]

In my experience, Mirrorless vs DSLR isn't so much considered in sensor design

What about OSPDAF (on-sensor PDAF)?

In my view, DSLRs should not be using OSPDAF sensors in order to avoid the image-degrading downsides of this technology.
MILCs, on the other hand, are dependent on such sensor designs to deliver good AF performance.

Panasonic tries to achieve good AF performance without using on-sensor PDAF sensels, but their DFD technology has its own downsides. It is quite off-putting to experience the back and forth wobbling of the AF system through the EVF. Luckily, I didn't need to endure it for long, only when testing the S1R out of curiosity.

I'll be using an OVF for as long as possible and I'd like the sensor to capitalize on the fact that the AF is accomplished otherwise (even though that means diminished LiveView AF performance or lack of AF during video recording).

[Mistral75]

(...)

I would speculate that in the future the covid-19 effect will hit the more expensive luxury toys more than the the cheaper ones.

(...)

I'm not so sure. Wealthy people will remain wealthy. Not-so-wealthy people will have to cut on everything but basic expenses (food, rent and so on).

A bit of insider information from a friend of mine who is the head of Hermès's logistics: their main problem during the Hubei confinement was to deliver their products there. People kept on ordering, if anything in bigger quantities than usual.

This is now public information. Hermès published their quarterly figures (January - March 2020) this morning. The share price is going up: +3.33% at stock market opening (CAC40 index: +0.87%).

[beholder3]

This is now public information. Hermès published their quarterly figures (January - March 2020) this morning. The share price is going up: +3.33% at stock market opening (CAC40 index: +0.87%).

Obviously cameras are not the same type of luxury goods:

Stock | NIKON Stock Price Today | Markets Insider

Nikon shares lost more than -30% in the first three months this quarter.

Sony also took a severe hit this year: SNEJF Stock | SONY Stock Price Today | Markets Insider

We will know more in two weeks with the newer CIPA data for March coming in and then later, once we see April data. April is the month to watch as it will be the first one with full impact.

[Mistral75]

^ Neither Nikon nor Sony are in luxury territory.

[beholder3]

^ Neither Nikon nor Sony are in luxury territory.

What I originally meant with "luxury items" pertained to all ILC cameras beyond the $1000 per new body territory.
All FF cameras are pure luxury toy gadgets, regardless if they stem from Sony, Fuji, Canon, Nikon etc.
Ordinary average income people wont ever afford a brand new one even under normal economic circumstances.


And here is more proof to my original prediction as well:

Financial Results & Presentation Materials | Canon global

In these times photographers will not invest into new luxury toys.

[Mistral75]

OK but 'ILC cameras beyond the $1000 per new body' are premium products, not luxury ones. Leica cameras are luxury products.

Audi, BMW and Jaguar cars, for instance, are premium products. Ferrari and Bentley cars are luxury products.

By the way, Canon cameras and lenses are doing a bit better than the market (as measured by CIPA shipments) during 1Q 2020: -27.1% vs. -29.3% y-o-y.